Self Harming - best course of action?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on January 4, 2010 at 6:09pm

Dear Amber,

I said that to protect you, please protect yourself, have them sign an agreement, because when it comes to law suit, your understanding and their excuse will not save you in the end, I hope you understand that I am only suggesting that for your own best interest and your clients as well...

Doreen Cohanim C.Ht,HBCE

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on January 4, 2010 at 6:22pm

My Dear Sunshine,

These dark, thick clouds sprouted out of your "well-intentioned amateurs" remark and they were blocking your rays -- I just couldn't figure out whom you considered "well-intentioned amateurs" in this discussion?

We may not be licensed health care providers, but we are Professionals and don't you forget it! =^..^=

I am happy that everything seems peachy in your neck of the NHS... Never-mind, the fact that a growing number of top UK MDs are calling on all of the health trusts and demanding that the NHS stop wasting money by paying for CAM.

Shine on me!

=^..^=

Henxy said:

I guess I aint so sunny in your eyes any more.
We are from different worlds. In my world, we respect each other. In my world, we work with health professionals, and complementary professionals. Here, both respect each other's contribution and knowledge base. There is no paranoia and defamation of character. There are just good people wanting to help others with the skills and qualifications they have.
I'm not interested in dollars. I work in pounds. Here, healthcare is free at the point of delivery; so there is no need for the slander which occurs against the medical profession elsewhere. There is no need for superstition against complementary practitioners; many doctors recommend hypnotherapy as an option. And the increasing number of us who are employed by the NHS proves this.

I'm sorry you have had a less than perfect experience, but you have no need to knock my advice, (which is only advice) which is born out of the privileged position of having a foot in both camps.

Michael Ellner said:

Henxy,

What you seem to be unaware of is that, in the realm of health care options, hypnosis is most often a last resort -- 9 out of 10 of our health related clients have been through the mill of conventional medical practice before they find their way to us. Sooner or later we realize that the qualified experts that our client's went to for help didn't help them! In many cases, not only were these people not helped, but the harm done to these people by qualified experts are well documented!

So forgive us, if we are not as impressed with QUALIFIED EXPERTS as you seemed to be. Yes, it is important to recognize and act within our various scopes of practice and let's keep in mind that millions of people are spending billions of out of pocket dollars because they are sick and tired of the arrogance, abuses and many short comings of conventional medical practice.


Michael Ellner

Henxy said:

Yup. Self harm comes most definitely under the remit of psychiatric care.

Mental Health Professionals use tactics such as providing the patient with a red pen that they can scribble on themselves with instead of cut. Or use ice for the shock/pain without damaging the skin and other tissues.

It's not often about 'finding a high'. It's an impulsive, compulsive behaviour; often arising from a lack of ability to express or cope with difficulties.

People who struggle with mental health issues often struggle most at times when society expects them to be enjoying themselves- all the pressure that is placed upon them to 'be happy, it's Christmas' can be too much. Just the same as it can be for recovering alcoholics, those with anger management issues etc etc.

PLEASE understand that self-harming and OCD aren't labels, they're diagnoses. He may not know what is positive for him at times. It's a tough, and often long-term treatment plan that may be needed here. Cutters are rarely suicidal, but they do need qualified help, not well-intentioned amateurs who could potentially do more harm than good.

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Permalink Reply by Melissa J. Roth on January 4, 2010 at 6:46pm

With the cutters/pickers/pullers I have seen I have used an NLP Parts reframe (5 steps instead of the traditional 8 of Parts Therapy). This behavior of cutting,etc. is getting something for the client that they obviously need. It is filling a purpose. AT the time the behavior was initiated it served a positive purpose. Perhaps it gave them a release. Maybe they didn't have coping skills or they needed to feel pain instead of numbness. Maybe the behavior had a lot of purposes. But, it is important to thank the UM for its positive intent. Then, ask it to disconnect from the original positive intent and get those same needs met in ways that are healthy, positive and beneficial instead. If the UM says it can get those needs met in other ways then covertly start installing positive behaviors instead that give the UM the same of more of what the cutting used to do but no longer can.

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Permalink Reply by Henxy on January 4, 2010 at 11:15pm

Perhaps one doth protest too much?!
My remark about well-intentioned amateurs was acknowledging that someone may mean well, but cause damage. I was not referring to anyone in particular, nor was I insinuating that anyone here would cause damage. It was a warning of the potential. I was making the point that one need not be malicious in order to cause a problem in a vulnerable person.

I studied alongside someone who believed that she could never cause any harm to anyone, because the Universe wouldn't let it happen. She believed that all her guidance came from the Universe... Yet those who are aware of her practice have other opinions.

We don't have MDs in the UK! ;-P As the NHS is funded through taxation, what is available is always going to be subject to rationing; just as things like intensive care bed days are in the private sector (have a cardiac bypass on Bupa not too long ago, need more than 5 days in ICU, and you're shipped off to the NHS, which doesn't put limits on the care it gives in this way).

In order to be responsible with tax-payers' money, treatments available from this finite pool of cash need to be as efficient as possible. The only way that is truly extrapolatable across the many disciplines is good-quality research- the most solid of which being RCTs. Due to the nature of RCTs, it's very difficult to get anywhere near rigorous research with a topic like HT, as there really isn't much ability to blind anyone to what treatment is being given or received. Also, in order to be taken seriously, HT claims need to be substantiated, and not wildy banded about. Why would any medical profession(al) choose to embrace any CAM if the CAM practitioners have no respect for them or their practice, or even their integrity?

Michael Ellner said:

My Dear Sunshine,

These dark, thick clouds sprouted out of your "well-intentioned amateurs" remark and they were blocking your rays -- I just couldn't figure out whom you considered "well-intentioned amateurs" in this discussion?

We may not be licensed health care providers, but we are Professionals and don't you forget it! =^..^=

I am happy that everything seems peachy in your neck of the NHS... Never-mind, the fact that a growing number of top UK MDs are calling on all of the health trusts and demanding that the NHS stop wasting money by paying for CAM.

Shine on me!

=^..^=

Henxy said:

I guess I aint so sunny in your eyes any more.
We are from different worlds. In my world, we respect each other. In my world, we work with health professionals, and complementary professionals. Here, both respect each other's contribution and knowledge base. There is no paranoia and defamation of character. There are just good people wanting to help others with the skills and qualifications they have.
I'm not interested in dollars. I work in pounds. Here, healthcare is free at the point of delivery; so there is no need for the slander which occurs against the medical profession elsewhere. There is no need for superstition against complementary practitioners; many doctors recommend hypnotherapy as an option. And the increasing number of us who are employed by the NHS proves this.

I'm sorry you have had a less than perfect experience, but you have no need to knock my advice, (which is only advice) which is born out of the privileged position of having a foot in both camps.

Michael Ellner said:

Henxy,

What you seem to be unaware of is that, in the realm of health care options, hypnosis is most often a last resort -- 9 out of 10 of our health related clients have been through the mill of conventional medical practice before they find their way to us. Sooner or later we realize that the qualified experts that our client's went to for help didn't help them! In many cases, not only were these people not helped, but the harm done to these people by qualified experts are well documented!

So forgive us, if we are not as impressed with QUALIFIED EXPERTS as you seemed to be. Yes, it is important to recognize and act within our various scopes of practice and let's keep in mind that millions of people are spending billions of out of pocket dollars because they are sick and tired of the arrogance, abuses and many short comings of conventional medical practice.


Michael Ellner

Henxy said:

Yup. Self harm comes most definitely under the remit of psychiatric care.

Mental Health Professionals use tactics such as providing the patient with a red pen that they can scribble on themselves with instead of cut. Or use ice for the shock/pain without damaging the skin and other tissues.

It's not often about 'finding a high'. It's an impulsive, compulsive behaviour; often arising from a lack of ability to express or cope with difficulties.

People who struggle with mental health issues often struggle most at times when society expects them to be enjoying themselves- all the pressure that is placed upon them to 'be happy, it's Christmas' can be too much. Just the same as it can be for recovering alcoholics, those with anger management issues etc etc.

PLEASE understand that self-harming and OCD aren't labels, they're diagnoses. He may not know what is positive for him at times. It's a tough, and often long-term treatment plan that may be needed here. Cutters are rarely suicidal, but they do need qualified help, not well-intentioned amateurs who could potentially do more harm than good.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by amber lee poole on January 5, 2010 at 1:31am

Thank you so much Melissa! I'm beginning to form a clear but fluid idea of how i'm going to tackle this :)

Henxy: Completely understand what you mean about people and the Universe - I know of someone that doesn't believe there is such a thing as Intent!!! You can imagine how this has affected all those around her, not many there anymore...

Amber xo

Melissa J. Roth said:

With the cutters/pickers/pullers I have seen I have used an NLP Parts reframe (5 steps instead of the traditional 8 of Parts Therapy). This behavior of cutting,etc. is getting something for the client that they obviously need. It is filling a purpose. AT the time the behavior was initiated it served a positive purpose. Perhaps it gave them a release. Maybe they didn't have coping skills or they needed to feel pain instead of numbness. Maybe the behavior had a lot of purposes. But, it is important to thank the UM for its positive intent. Then, ask it to disconnect from the original positive intent and get those same needs met in ways that are healthy, positive and beneficial instead. If the UM says it can get those needs met in other ways then covertly start installing positive behaviors instead that give the UM the same of more of what the cutting used to do but no longer can.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by amber lee poole on January 20, 2010 at 8:01pm

I just wanted to do a quick follow up on this case - I have seen this young lad twice now and after the first session i was blown away with the results! You could feel the energy in the room, it was electric!

I had a great chat and found that what he was after was the release feeling at the end of the cutting....i also questioned why he started and mentioned that i had read a lot of sites and was quite shocked as to how positive they seemed to be about the end result of the calm, release, lovely feeling!

I decided to do the Red Balloon Technique where he puts all the past troubles, etc that have been holding him back in a hot air balloon and watches them float away.....much more to it of course but simplifying it :)

He went very deep and felt marvellous at the end of the hypnosis.

Then i anchored the END FEELING that he wants to his finger and thumb and got him to choose what words he wanted to use.... to get him to check if it worked, when he opened his eyes we chatted a little while then i asked him to press his finger and thumb together.... He looked at me, at his damaged arm, to his mum and back at me!!!! He had felt the exact feeling of after he cuts himself! Sooooooooooooooo he realised that he could have that feeling he wanted immediately without harming himself!

I was so excited!

He came back the week after and hadn't even wanted to harm himself! Said he had had the most wonderful week and kept a journal for me, which i asked him to do.

Anywaysssss.......... i will be seeing him next week and truly hope he continues to do well. Hope this has helped others and now i'm not so worried about helping people with what i would consider serious issues (he was at a point of taking his own life so i was very aware of not making things worse in any way)

Amber xox

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Permalink Reply by Jackie Spencer on January 20, 2010 at 8:31pm

This is why I love Hypnothoughts.

Amber, you are a Godsend to this family and an inspiration to me.

J.

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Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on January 20, 2010 at 9:32pm

Congratulations, Amber...what a wonderful outcome for your client!

I just watched an episode with a SI case on A & E's Obsession. The woman in this case was treated with exposure therapy, but it was not successful. I had to wonder why hypnotherapy is never used in this series...

Thanks for sharing your case; not just for professionals but for anyone wondering if hypnosis is helpful for self injury ~ you have graciously answered that question!

Best wishes,

Kelley

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Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on January 20, 2010 at 9:34pm

Hi Amber, I am glad it went well for all, but I am a little bit concerned, and the reasons are:

A 19 year old male recommended to you because he's self harming him self by cutting and also having OCD, on medications and been seeing a counselor and also a psyche , but for some reason hasn't been able to get in contact with anyone over the holiday season and has been harming again, that is after three months, and now he sees you and he is good after two sessions so far...

I have few questions for you and I hope you don't mind? you reported in your follow up that this guy had a lot of anger, by just feeling his energy in the room? So did he ever shared with you what is he angry about?

Did you find out why was he cutting him self, was it part of his OCD, did he know why he is doing it, or he had no clue why is he even cutting him self?

What is it you had found out about releasing his feeling in regards to his cutting, beside the fact that you shared with him what you have read about that was quite shocking to you that they had seem to have positive feeling from the end results, such as feeling calm, release and lovely feeling?

I understand that you have used the "Red Balloon Technique" that helped your client to go into a deep relaxation, but how did you address his issues regarding his OCD and him cutting him self?

Also why did you have his mother with you and your client?

Also what make you sure, that he did he realized that he could have that feeling he wanted immediately without harming himself?

Now I understand that he came back and he felt great not wanting to harm himself again, and that he had the most wonderful week and kept a journal for you, (by the way, the journal was a great idea). Now the reason I am asking all this is simply because I don't really see how you solved the problem, yes, you helped him to be more calm and relaxed without cutting him self, but if you recall, he was on medication before and was good for about three months, until something trigger the cutting again, and you also said that ( he was at a point of taking his own life), so how did you make sure that he will not take his life?

Amber, I am sorry, and forgive me If I may sound wrong, and I hope I am, but I have been working with OCD and people who use to have suicidal thoughts, and I think, you are not addressing the issue here, and yes, you may be able to help him in the short run, but this young guy need a better approach then a "Red Balloon Technique".

I honestly think you need to learn more about OCD and cutting, and not just by reading articles, especially if you want to help clients with such issues.

These behaviors are usually driven by habitual inner feelings that are painful and dark, therefore their act is to elevate their present feeling of the moment by hurting themselves in a way that it is physically painful, it gives them a temporary relief and it also gives them some level of being in control.

And if you don't know how to address the real issues, then the result is only temporary relief, and he will continue cutting himself in the future as possibly even taking action over his suicidal thoughts.

PS: Every time he will look at his scars, he will remember the reasons why he is cutting him self, and maybe to you it looks as he realized the mistake, but I think he only felt more pain and shame, and that is why he looked at you and at his mother, thinking, if they only knew half what they think they know.

I really hope that you have a doctor referral and not only your client agreement, since this guy need his counselor involved, and If I was you, I will ask his psychiatrist, as what kind of suggestion this guy need to address his issue.

Thanks for sharing and keep up the good work.
Respectfully, Doreen Cohanim
www.HypnoCruise.com

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Permalink Reply by amber lee poole on January 21, 2010 at 3:56pm

Hi Doreen,

Some answers to your concerns:

1. He isn't angry in anyway, just lost his way when he left school and landed up drinking, doing drugs and just lost his self esteem as he was unsure of what he wanted to do in life... up to this point he had not had any sad thoughts at all. He is a very nice young man with a great energy.

2. He was feeling very confused and frustrated about his future and he turned to cutting - he does have an alcoholic father that isn't abusive to the family but falls over and hurts himself, etc and the son is obviously concerned about him but not in fear of him.

3. I am not dealing with the cutting too much, it is the overall helping him to see a positive future and getting him to feel good about himself that i am working on... he is seeing prof's at this point and i don't want to step on any toes or take a wrong turn. I have gotten him to keep a diary - the front for writing down all the good things in his life on a daily basis and the back for any negative or hurtful thoughts he has.

4. His mother insisted on coming for the first session - she didn't come second, i asked that i see him on his own, in case there was some trauma that he didn't want to share with her - they were both happy with this.

5. The red balloon was a way of taking all the past pain, etc and dumping it and watching it float away - might seem simple to some but has had remarkable results with my clients. He shared with me that even in his time of non-harming that he always had wanted to - but in the time he has been seeing me he hasn't even thought about it or emotionally or physically wanted to do it - i asked him specifically if he had ever had that relief before and he said never.

6. When he looked at his arm after testing the Anchor it was in shock because the only time he had had that feeling of release and calm in the past was by cutting, so he was expecting to see his arm bleeding... it is not the cutting feeling we have established, it is the CALM PEACEFUL BELIEF IN HIMSELF WE HAVE ACCOMPLISHED.

7. I am not sure he won't take his life, I don't proclaim that he is cured, I am just doing the best i can to help build this lovely young man - just like all the psyches, etc are trying their best also. I feel good that he has had a different kind of relief that he hasn't had before and keen to keep this happening.

8. He isn't ashamed of his scars or his arms and wears short sleeves everywhere he goes - he told me in the first session that he is over this and doesn't want it in his life anymore - that he realises he just got a little lost and confused after leaving school - now he is looking for work that he truly desires and actually sees a positive future - do i think that it is all over and he is fine from this moment on? No! The first time something in life knocks him down he will go to old habits unless we continue to build and change his patterns - which i intend on helping if i can :)

9. I will admit that this is my first time dealing with Cutting - but i do believe that anyone can change anything if they so desire it and that is the energy i am going to come from and constantly move forward full of positive and optimism and strategy.

10. I will be getting the referral this week, another reason we have stayed specifically away from the cutting and thank you for your suggestions and i will contact the psych and see what suggestions they have.

To conclude, as i really just wanted to give hope to others, even if it is just a few weeks or months or years that we can help ANYONE.

I do not proclaim to have cured him but i do know that he is a much happier, fulfilled person at this time - also, whilst he was seeing all the counsellors, psychs, etc he still did not want to work or move forward in his life - he now does, i am not saying it was what i have done and not trying to blow whistles... but i think we should all feel proud of ourselves when we do help someone, otherwise why are we doing it?!?!?! We would land up sitting in an office dealing with people like they are nothing, with no feeling or caring, and no energy to then pass on to the next one. I am doing this to hopefully change peoples lives - i have seen massive change in many already and i feel good about them moving on with their lives :)

I am going to continue to do what i do with people and continue to bring results.

Amber xox

Doreen Cohanim C.Ht said:

Hi Amber, I am glad it went well for all, but I am a little bit concerned, and the reasons are:
A 19 year old male recommended to you because he's self harming him self by cutting and also having OCD, on medications and been seeing a counselor and also a psyche , but for some reason hasn't been able to get in contact with anyone over the holiday season and has been harming again, that is after three months, and now he sees you and he is good after two sessions so far...
I have few questions for you and I hope you don't mind? you reported in your follow up that this guy had a lot of anger, by just feeling his energy in the room? So did he ever shared with you what is he angry about?

Did you find out why was he cutting him self, was it part of his OCD, did he know why he is doing it, or he had no clue why is he even cutting him self?

What is it you had found out about releasing his feeling in regards to his cutting, beside the fact that you shared with him what you have read about that was quite shocking to you that they had seem to have positive feeling from the end results, such as feeling calm, release and lovely feeling?

I understand that you have used the "Red Balloon Technique" that helped your client to go into a deep relaxation, but how did you address his issues regarding his OCD and him cutting him self?

Also why did you have his mother with you and your client?

Also what make you sure, that he did he realized that he could have that feeling he wanted immediately without harming himself?

Now I understand that he came back and he felt great not wanting to harm himself again, and that he had the most wonderful week and kept a journal for you, (by the way, the journal was a great idea). Now the reason I am asking all this is simply because I don't really see how you solved the problem, yes, you helped him to be more calm and relaxed without cutting him self, but if you recall, he was on medication before and was good for about three months, until something trigger the cutting again, and you also said that ( he was at a point of taking his own life), so how did you make sure that he will not take his life?

Amber, I am sorry, and forgive me If I may sound wrong, and I hope I am, but I have been working with OCD and people who use to have suicidal thoughts, and I think, you are not addressing the issue here, and yes, you may be able to help him in the short run, but this young guy need a better approach then a "Red Balloon Technique".

I honestly think you need to learn more about OCD and cutting, and not just by reading articles, especially if you want to help clients with such issues.

These behaviors are usually driven by habitual inner feelings that are painful and dark, therefore their act is to elevate their present feeling of the moment by hurting themselves in a way that it is physically painful, it gives them a temporary relief and it also gives them some level of being in control.

And if you don't know how to address the real issues, then the result is only temporary relief, and he will continue cutting himself in the future as possibly even taking action over his suicidal thoughts.

PS: Every time he will look at his scars, he will remember the reasons why he is cutting him self, and maybe to you it looks as he realized the mistake, but I think he only felt more pain and shame, and that is why he looked at you and at his mother, thinking, if they only knew half what they think they know.

I really hope that you have a doctor referral and not only your client agreement, since this guy need his counselor involved, and If I was you, I will ask his psychiatrist, as what kind of suggestion this guy need to address his issue.

Thanks for sharing and keep up the good work.
Respectfully, Doreen Cohanim
www.HypnoCruise.com

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on January 21, 2010 at 5:38pm

Dear Amber,

Thank you for your answers and i believe we all enjoy our work, because we can give others hope, isn't it why most therapist chose this path?

I also never assumed that you have proclaim to have cured him, and I am sure you have the abilities to help your client in improving their life style.

Amber, I am proud of you for having the desire to help your client, but when helping a client with such deep emotional issues such as self harming, then in my opinion, you are missing the of helping your client.

People don't just cut themselves, their is a deeper reason for this unhealthy approach, and as much as your intention is great, you are not helping, and you are missing the point, since what doing is, burying the issue the cause without approaching it... and instead you color it with a temporary positive change and feelings.

Now, you said, I am not dealing with the cutting too much, it is the overall helping him to see a positive future and getting him to feel good about himself that i am working on... I think you are missing the point, he is a cutter, and you are working with him, so if you work in improving his life style, it must be working with his condition as well, only you are ignoring the condition and trying to help him by hoping he will be better using simple relaxation and peacefulness to give up cutting.

You also said, I will admit that this is my first time dealing with Cutting - but Ii do believe that anyone can change anything if they so desire it and that is the energy i am going to come from and constantly move forward full of positive and optimism and strategy.

I read your post, and all I am going to say to you is, all the best. I really mean it.

And I hope for those who emailed me privately, to come forward and to share what you shared with me about this discussion, so others see my point, At this point, It is truly important, and I mean it.

PS: Dear Amber, I am not suggesting for you not to work with the client, all, I am suggesting that you talk to his psychiatrist and ask for help, guide and also study the cutting condition, not by articles, but by taking classes, training, and or reading as many books about it, so it can help in your wonderful intention to help your clients..

All the best, Love and Peace.
Doreen Cohanim C.Ht
www.HypnoCruise.com

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Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on January 21, 2010 at 6:20pm

Dear Amber, your client cutting is an obvious emotional and psychological need and this needs to be addressed, even when you work with him, so, just doing what you doing is not enough, since you have been ignoring the real issue as why he came to see you, and you are missing the point of your client real well being.

Don't get me wrong, It's not about hypnosis, it's about how you use hypnosis to help your client, and your position is to help your client with the outcome of his condition, so he can identify why he is cutting him self, and once his deep reasons been acknowledged and identified, you can give him the right suggestions in helping him with his negative and limited thoughts, so you can help him with new and positive behaviors, and if next time anything happens, he knows how to approach it better then just going back to his old self harming/cutting.

I'm afraid you are missing the real point of your clients real condition that is "CUTTING".

Your client needs more then RED BALLOON and Relaxation, what he needs is understanding and realization of his negative approach that is harmful for his safety.

And I wish for those who emailed me privately agreeing with my concern to come forward and explain why they agree with me, so you can perhaps understand my point.

PS: I am not suggesting for you not to work with the client, I am suggesting that you talk to his psychiatrist and ask for help, and also study the cutting condition, not by articles, but by taking classes and or reading as many books about it, since what you doing right now will back fire and harm your client, and no mater how sincere is your intention to help your client..

Doreen Cohanim C.Ht
www.HypnoCruise.com

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