Severe Anxiety

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Randy Shaw on February 21, 2010 at 5:52pm

Hi Janice,

I found that common hypnotism with these kinds of clients is very difficult and ofter unproductive.

With clients who are overwhelmed with multiple feelings, caused by multiple and unresolved experiences and thoughts, the best way I've found is to utilize the releasing of those negative feelings. If you are familiar with any of the rubbing and tapping methods, like EFT, I've found that they work marvelously to 1. help the client settle down; 2. get the client more compliant; 3. get them into "trance" (I don't even like that word); and 4. Prepares them for successful age regression, BUT in the regression some TANGIBLE improvement must be experienced or the perception won't change.

So, work with the feeling first, then as the feeling leave the body their perception can change.

If you would like more details about this, just email me and I can point you toward some ideas and even some excellent training materials which could help you out a lot with "difficult" clients who are overwhelmed and can't seem to settle in on one thought or issue.

Best to you,
Randy Shaw

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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on February 21, 2010 at 7:32pm

There is another thread on this that has been fairly active and contain some techniques and guidance for anxiety issues.

http://www.hypnothoughts.com/forum/topics/anxiety-attacks-1

Check it out, and I hope it helps you

John

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Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on February 21, 2010 at 8:30pm

Hello Janice,
I have read your post few times to make sure what I am saying is the right response. In your post, you said that your client is “anxious and is unable to make a decision”.

And you have tried all the usual things, done age regression – why? Not saying you did wrong, but I’d like to know why and after how many sessions? hope you don’t mind me asking.

You also said, she is on medication and her illness runs in the family, while her father has Alzheimer disease and mother is an anxious mess.

Now, have you built a rapport with this client? since what I am picking here is general, and based on that, you have used various scripts for anxiety, but in my opinion, scripts are general and are not fit for all, since anxiety, fear, anxiousness, phobias all varies based on the clients story.

Again this is only my personal opinion, but your client’s anxiousness and or anxiety is totally misunderstood, since the presenting issue of your clients anxiety and anxiousness is really a result of her “depression”, I am saying that not because I am diagnosis that, I am not, I am saying that, because this is what I have learned with time, of course over her anxiety, she makes sure to apply her personal destructions from her daily commitment by complaining over and over and then asking you to make the decision for her, it is like telling you, I am here to get the "magic pill" and you are not doing your job right.

And that is why she keeps asking you the same question, such as "do you think because I had too much sugar yesterday (the perceived reason can be anything and everything) is the reason I am this way?" Do you think I should go back to my job? (She had to leave because she drove everyone nuts with her constant uncertainty and questions)...do you think...what you think... “I just don't know what to do” ...I can't decide what to do..." And so on.

OK, This is my advice, get rid of the scripts, build a rapport, listen to your client, and don’t confuse it with wjat you already know, remember she is on medication, (find out what type of medication and why, what are the side effects) make sure you have a doctor referral, tell her that you can’t do the work for her, explain what is your position and have her agreed to your rules, listen to me, breath, relax, you get the idea… now understand the presenting issue, your client anxiety and anxiousness is being in social situations that lead her to look for excuses so she can stay away from other people, since the anxiety is her cause. And the cause of her anxiety is really a "fear", and most likely it's not related to the cause of her physical or medical condition.

Work with her self esteem, confidence, she can’t decide what to do, ask her why? how does it feel, what if she was able to do, hope you get the point… Also tell her that you are not in her mind and their for you cannot think for her, have some fun, believe In what you can do and do it, other wise, refer her out to another Hypnotherapist until you ready to take cases like this one.

Blessings, Doreen Cohanim C.Ht
www.HypnoCruise.com

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Permalink Reply by Janice Vivienne Shaw on February 21, 2010 at 11:47pm

Hi Randy! Thank you for your comments, and yes, I have done heaps of EFT with her. Seems to be a good result at the time but give it two days and we are back to square one! She has fear of the dark, rooms are too dark even in the daytime and I had a good result with releasing that one, some rooms in her house she was unable to go into (resolved) and other fears, all dissipated, but still lurking there a wee bit, her husband is very supportive it appears, but thoroughly sick of it due to her upon waking up in the morning she goes at it...do you think...what shall I do...and so on. i have asked her to write everything down rather than drive him crazy and she is somewhat successful at that. She told me he now turns the tv on in the morning to stop her verbal diarrohea. Poor man, I feel for him. She is a constant worrier. I feel this onset has been caused since menopause, that her anxiety has been underlying in a much milder form most of her life which is why I did the age regression. So far I have not been able to get her to express any particular feelings from her early life, but would like to try again to see if we can get to something tangible. What do you think.

Randy Shaw said:

Hi Janice,

I found that common hypnotism with these kinds of clients is very difficult and ofter unproductive.

With clients who are overwhelmed with multiple feelings, caused by multiple and unresolved experiences and thoughts, the best way I've found is to utilize the releasing of those negative feelings. If you are familiar with any of the rubbing and tapping methods, like EFT, I've found that they work marvelously to 1. help the client settle down; 2. get the client more compliant; 3. get them into "trance" (I don't even like that word); and 4. Prepares them for successful age regression, BUT in the regression some TANGIBLE improvement must be experienced or the perception won't change.

So, work with the feeling first, then as the feeling leave the body their perception can change.

If you would like more details about this, just email me and I can point you toward some ideas and even some excellent training materials which could help you out a lot with "difficult" clients who are overwhelmed and can't seem to settle in on one thought or issue.

Best to you,
Randy Shaw

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Permalink Reply by michael hadfield on February 22, 2010 at 12:59am

I fully support everything Doreen has said and think you would do well to read her advice through a few times because there is a deeper message there.

So what can I add?

Perhaps you could think in terms of 'games'. People play games – or if you are a Celestine Prophecy fan, 'control dramas'. People end up in these control dramas without fully understanding how they got there and they seem very real (and very frightening to them). The behaviours they exhibit, anxiety or indecision, for instance, are there to keep them safe. Attempting to take away the behaviour without dealing with keeping them safe is doomed to failure.

The interesting thing about the games is that everyone gets pulled in to support the continued playing of the game. It seems to me that you have been pulled in and are now supporting the game.

A question that needs asking is 'Do you really want to be well, or do you just want to be seen to be getting help for your problems?' If your client just wants to be seen to be appearing to do something, then nothing you can do will change anything. This question will cause them to look at themselves from a slightly different direction and may well produce a shift just in its asking.

Difficulty in decision-making: I would tell her 'that's fine. I have difficulty making decisions too. In fact I never make decisions until I'm absolutely certain. I just forget about the problem until I know what to do.' You simply cannot produce movement from a position of resistance to the problem.

From your perspective – do you have a plan of action? Do you have an intuitive sense of where the problem lies and what aspects need to be worked with? Personally I find that using several sessions just working on building up a strong sense of self and increasing confidence as well as providing some easy homework that will allow the client to experience some small sense of achievement or success goes a long way towards achieving complete freedom.

For yourself: See this as a long-term project. I get the feeling you are looking for 'a result' with some immediacy. That is highly unlikely. This sort of problem takes time to heal. If you settle back, relax and enjoy the process then your client will benefit tremendously.

Feel free to contact me directly. I'm at http://www.hypnosisiseasy.com

Good luck
Michael

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Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on February 22, 2010 at 5:00am

Hello Janice,

Michael H. hit on some excellent points...When dealing with a client such as this, I generally use an approach as follows:

1. My job is to assist the client in creating change toward a desired outcome. At what stage of change is the client currently experiencing, if any? Is she even aware that there is a problem? The fact that your client is working with you demonstrates that she has moved into a place where change is possible and maybe even probable.

2. I help the client discover how the issue is influencing her life, both positively and negatively. In order to move forward from this point, she needs to believe there is a need for change.

3. Does the client believe she can change? Michael's suggestions to build experience of success can create and support such a belief. Hint: belief can also arrive when she imagines how change will positively affect her life.

4. I then help the client create a plan with a choice of options for change. Further work constantly keeps the desired outcome in sight and all movement is toward it.


Throughout this process, rapport and empathy plus a firm stance regarding taking personal responsibility will help the client become unstuck. And, remember to have fun; living for years in such a state tends to kill the joybug. Sometimes, simply allowing your client to enjoy a "giggle fest" while in trance can do wonders!

Best wishes,

Kelley

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Permalink Reply by Janice Vivienne Shaw on February 22, 2010 at 5:00pm

Thanks Kelley for your comments. Yes, she is aware she needs to change and wants to, and yet her mind seems to be set on cracked record; i.e. she takes in the positive stuff for a few minutes then out comes the usual questions, shall I go back to my job? Or some similar question like, "but I still don't know whether I should go back to my job or not". If I ask her "do you think you should go back", then she says "I don't know, I can't decide". So there is a going round in circles. As she hasn't phoned me this week for an appointment I take that as a (possibly) good sign. She spent 12 weeks with a CB Therapist, recommended by her doctor. She thinks it might have helped her a bit but is uncertain. She has now cancelled her appointments with the CBT and wants to stick with me. Yes she can find amusement in things, (in particular driving her poor husband crazy) she plays golf and is quite social. Thank you for your comments, it all helps me get a better perspective.

Kelley Woods said:

Hello Janice,

Michael H. hit on some excellent points...When dealing with a client such as this, I generally use an approach as follows:

1. My job is to assist the client in creating change toward a desired outcome. At what stage of change is the client currently experiencing, if any? Is she even aware that there is a problem? The fact that your client is working with you demonstrates that she has moved into a place where change is possible and maybe even probable.

2. I help the client discover how the issue is influencing her life, both positively and negatively. In order to move forward from this point, she needs to believe there is a need for change.

3. Does the client believe she can change? Michael's suggestions to build experience of success can create and support such a belief. Hint: belief can also arrive when she imagines how change will positively affect her life.

4. I then help the client create a plan with a choice of options for change. Further work constantly keeps the desired outcome in sight and all movement is toward it.


Throughout this process, rapport and empathy plus a firm stance regarding taking personal responsibility will help the client become unstuck. And, remember to have fun; living for years in such a state tends to kill the joybug. Sometimes, simply allowing your client to enjoy a "giggle fest" while in trance can do wonders!

Best wishes,

Kelley

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Randy Shaw on February 22, 2010 at 6:20pm

Hi Janice
You wrote:
""She is a constant worrier. I feel this onset has been caused since menopause, that her anxiety has been underlying in a much milder form most of her life which is why I did the age regression. So far I have not been able to get her to express any particular feelings from her early life, but would like to try again to see if we can get to something tangible. What do you think.""

Okay, good. I'd like to know how far back the worrying goes because it has compounded so much now that it seems it's totally out of her control.

One principle: Change the feeling = change the thought. Find earlier experiences of worrying and release those feelings and you begin to take the weight off the earlier events where the worrying has been accumulating, stacking up inside of her.
Doing traditional EFT is usually with eyes open and not deep enough for me. So I add lots of hypnotic method to it and when deeper in hypnosis the regressions are a lot easier.

I would start with those current fears you mentioned, fear of dark, but take the steering wheel and lightly, gently regress her back on the remaining feeling of fear of the dark, let that thread - which is the trail in the subconscious mind - take her back to an earlier experience and when there, again do the releasing. By doing this you are taking the weight off the ISE and the deeper SSE's, and the symptoms will begin to lessen.

Frankly, seems like everyone I've worked with that was consumed with worry regressed back to some of their own childhood scenes where no matter what they did, it wasn't good enough, or, they could not fix or repair a problem like: mom and dad's lousy marriage/ divorce/ no money. The last insomnia client I had reported her insomnia erupting terribly when her own children were born. She had "always" had problem getting to sleep... I knew from past experience that when women start having their own children, the old fears and unresolved feelings come rushing up. This client was so unloved and ignored that when she had her own babies - she HYPER- paid attention to them, in an effort to NOT BE LIKE HER MOTHER, thus she was not able to sleep as she subconsciously/ emotionally so set on being the PERFECT mother.

Your worrier client has legitimate issues, but those issues in the now seem trivial and nothing to worry about, right? BUT SOMETHING HAS HAPPENED TO HER TO MAKE HER FEEL WORRIED, ---cause and effect--- and thus your move to regress was spot on in my opinion. The "not-so-important-" things she worries about now are the result of her years and decades of worrying ENERGY trapped in her body, which she did not know how to release. It's not just about releasing in the now, but in the "past nows" that have accumulated and now overwhelm her.

This is a tough case but she was sent to you for you to learn.

Take her back, but go through the back door.... gently, after each release, help her go back in time, even if it was just last summer, but start the process of releasing, noticing the improvement, then sliding back "a little in time" until her Subconscious mind understands what you are doing and eventually just opens up so you can help her and she can help herself.

Hang in there with her, take it one feeling at a time, nudge backwards, take the compounded weight off the perception in the subconscious mind. The perseption will change once the feelings in the event changes. I've had hundreds of successes in this process, trust your initial impressions. One such success is found at:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/olympicpulse/blogs/blog=olympichealthand...

Same process, once cleaned out then tons of future pacing.

Take care,
Randy

Janice Vivienne Shaw said:

Hi Randy! Thank you for your comments, and yes, I have done heaps of EFT with her. Seems to be a good result at the time but give it two days and we are back to square one! She has fear of the dark, rooms are too dark even in the daytime and I had a good result with releasing that one, some rooms in her house she was unable to go into (resolved) and other fears, all dissipated, but still lurking there a wee bit, her husband is very supportive it appears, but thoroughly sick of it due to her upon waking up in the morning she goes at it...do you think...what shall I do...and so on. i have asked her to write everything down rather than drive him crazy and she is somewhat successful at that. She told me he now turns the tv on in the morning to stop her verbal diarrohea. Poor man, I feel for him. She is a constant worrier. I feel this onset has been caused since menopause, that her anxiety has been underlying in a much milder form most of her life which is why I did the age regression. So far I have not been able to get her to express any particular feelings from her early life, but would like to try again to see if we can get to something tangible. What do you think.
Randy Shaw said:

Hi Janice,

I found that common hypnotism with these kinds of clients is very difficult and ofter unproductive.

With clients who are overwhelmed with multiple feelings, caused by multiple and unresolved experiences and thoughts, the best way I've found is to utilize the releasing of those negative feelings. If you are familiar with any of the rubbing and tapping methods, like EFT, I've found that they work marvelously to 1. help the client settle down; 2. get the client more compliant; 3. get them into "trance" (I don't even like that word); and 4. Prepares them for successful age regression, BUT in the regression some TANGIBLE improvement must be experienced or the perception won't change.

So, work with the feeling first, then as the feeling leave the body their perception can change.

If you would like more details about this, just email me and I can point you toward some ideas and even some excellent training materials which could help you out a lot with "difficult" clients who are overwhelmed and can't seem to settle in on one thought or issue.

Best to you,
Randy Shaw

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on February 22, 2010 at 6:52pm

Thank you Micheal H :)

By the way great advice.
Doreen Cohanim C.Ht

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Janice Vivienne Shaw on February 23, 2010 at 3:18am

Thank you so much Randy! I am now more confident that I was on the right path and just need to persevere. I have your wonderful training materials, all the dvd's on regression, and your patience with me is much appreciated.


Randy Shaw said:

Hi Janice
You wrote:
""She is a constant worrier. I feel this onset has been caused since menopause, that her anxiety has been underlying in a much milder form most of her life which is why I did the age regression. So far I have not been able to get her to express any particular feelings from her early life, but would like to try again to see if we can get to something tangible. What do you think.""

Okay, good. I'd like to know how far back the worrying goes because it has compounded so much now that it seems it's totally out of her control.

One principle: Change the feeling = change the thought. Find earlier experiences of worrying and release those feelings and you begin to take the weight off the earlier events where the worrying has been accumulating, stacking up inside of her.
Doing traditional EFT is usually with eyes open and not deep enough for me. So I add lots of hypnotic method to it and when deeper in hypnosis the regressions are a lot easier.

I would start with those current fears you mentioned, fear of dark, but take the steering wheel and lightly, gently regress her back on the remaining feeling of fear of the dark, let that thread - which is the trail in the subconscious mind - take her back to an earlier experience and when there, again do the releasing. By doing this you are taking the weight off the ISE and the deeper SSE's, and the symptoms will begin to lessen.

Frankly, seems like everyone I've worked with that was consumed with worry regressed back to some of their own childhood scenes where no matter what they did, it wasn't good enough, or, they could not fix or repair a problem like: mom and dad's lousy marriage/ divorce/ no money. The last insomnia client I had reported her insomnia erupting terribly when her own children were born. She had "always" had problem getting to sleep... I knew from past experience that when women start having their own children, the old fears and unresolved feelings come rushing up. This client was so unloved and ignored that when she had her own babies - she HYPER- paid attention to them, in an effort to NOT BE LIKE HER MOTHER, thus she was not able to sleep as she subconsciously/ emotionally so set on being the PERFECT mother.

Your worrier client has legitimate issues, but those issues in the now seem trivial and nothing to worry about, right? BUT SOMETHING HAS HAPPENED TO HER TO MAKE HER FEEL WORRIED, ---cause and effect--- and thus your move to regress was spot on in my opinion. The "not-so-important-" things she worries about now are the result of her years and decades of worrying ENERGY trapped in her body, which she did not know how to release. It's not just about releasing in the now, but in the "past nows" that have accumulated and now overwhelm her.

This is a tough case but she was sent to you for you to learn.

Take her back, but go through the back door.... gently, after each release, help her go back in time, even if it was just last summer, but start the process of releasing, noticing the improvement, then sliding back "a little in time" until her Subconscious mind understands what you are doing and eventually just opens up so you can help her and she can help herself.

Hang in there with her, take it one feeling at a time, nudge backwards, take the compounded weight off the perception in the subconscious mind. The perseption will change once the feelings in the event changes. I've had hundreds of successes in this process, trust your initial impressions. One such success is found at:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/olympicpulse/blogs/blog=olympichealthand...

Same process, once cleaned out then tons of future pacing.

Take care,
Randy

Janice Vivienne Shaw said:

Hi Randy! Thank you for your comments, and yes, I have done heaps of EFT with her. Seems to be a good result at the time but give it two days and we are back to square one! She has fear of the dark, rooms are too dark even in the daytime and I had a good result with releasing that one, some rooms in her house she was unable to go into (resolved) and other fears, all dissipated, but still lurking there a wee bit, her husband is very supportive it appears, but thoroughly sick of it due to her upon waking up in the morning she goes at it...do you think...what shall I do...and so on. i have asked her to write everything down rather than drive him crazy and she is somewhat successful at that. She told me he now turns the tv on in the morning to stop her verbal diarrohea. Poor man, I feel for him. She is a constant worrier. I feel this onset has been caused since menopause, that her anxiety has been underlying in a much milder form most of her life which is why I did the age regression. So far I have not been able to get her to express any particular feelings from her early life, but would like to try again to see if we can get to something tangible. What do you think.
Randy Shaw said:

Hi Janice,

I found that common hypnotism with these kinds of clients is very difficult and ofter unproductive.

With clients who are overwhelmed with multiple feelings, caused by multiple and unresolved experiences and thoughts, the best way I've found is to utilize the releasing of those negative feelings. If you are familiar with any of the rubbing and tapping methods, like EFT, I've found that they work marvelously to 1. help the client settle down; 2. get the client more compliant; 3. get them into "trance" (I don't even like that word); and 4. Prepares them for successful age regression, BUT in the regression some TANGIBLE improvement must be experienced or the perception won't change.

So, work with the feeling first, then as the feeling leave the body their perception can change.

If you would like more details about this, just email me and I can point you toward some ideas and even some excellent training materials which could help you out a lot with "difficult" clients who are overwhelmed and can't seem to settle in on one thought or issue.

Best to you,
Randy Shaw

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on February 23, 2010 at 4:16am

I think you should give up also. But send her to a hypnotist who uses direct methods. Her anxiety needs to be controlled and you won't do that with scripts.... ye gods.

She needs to be banged under and told quite simply that she can stop asking the questions now. If she gets the question she gets the answer at the same time and her answers re soooo much better than anyone elses.

Then do some simple symbolism with her to restructure her patterning.

I know you are not trained in these techniques otherwise you would have seen a result, so please. Pas her on to someone who can do the job.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Donna Carter on February 23, 2010 at 10:06am

Janice,

My thoughts as they occur:

- I haven't noticed anyone mention desensitization - which I have found very useful with people who have anxiety/panic. One more area for you to research.

- Also, you need to believe you can help her. Your body language is telling its own story, if YOU don't believe you can help her... it doesn't bode well. Your last sentence indicates your frustration.

- I have suffered with anxiety (of which you speak) and I am a changed woman because of hypnosis - it does work and you can do it! (you can research the threads here - because anxiety is talked about many times on hypnothoughts and there are many people who offer some great advice).

- You should listen to her...if she indicates by saying "Do you think I had too much sugar yesterday" this is a clue that YES she had too much sugar yesterday. People who suffer from anxiety need to avoid processed sugar and throw in some good protein throughout the day to find out if a drop in blood sugar is one of the root causes of their issue. One way to see if blood sugar is an issue is, when she feels anxious...eat some raw almonds (or some other healthy protein) and if she feels a bit better (to a huge amount better) about 15 minutes later...blood sugar could be a huge problem for her. Or better yet, eat a bit of protein every hour or two...just for good measure...and see how she feels after a few days of doing this.

- You indicated her illness runs in the family. Sounds like she has bought into the idea that she has an illness. (did you buy into it also?) Would it be a good idea to find a way to have her buy into the thought that anxiety is a behavior... and just like any learned behavior, she can learn a new behavior? (the explanation of how neurons that fire together wire together would be a great example of how behavior can change).

The combination of...desensitizing & learning a new behavior with making sure her blood sugar is balanced - these are three areas I would look at - for sure.

- A person can't be happy and laughing and feeling fear and anxiety at the same time. An anchor of happy laughing - sounds like it could be in order.

- Also, if using a script is what works for you - do it. It is interesting...
you see...
I am... extremely smart (~grin) and I started out on scripts. I find it interesting some of the people who say they never use scripts? What? Whatever... good for them.
It has taken a good year or so for me to feel like I know the ropes, I know what is needed, to make scripts of my own, to go off on random metaphors when needed for a specific client. A good year. Now...3 years into it, I still get ideas from scripts, research...research...research.
I love reading other peoples scripts, taking what I need...leaving what I don't. They are a great learning tool and sometimes it really helps to get your thoughts in order. It may be indicated by some people that if you want a script - you might be beneath them... it's hogwash. ~yeppa~
I started out by learning scripts, I'm becoming a damn fine hypnotist, and... I have no issue saying... "I've used 'em and I'll use 'em again if I want to."

Those are my thoughts for now.
Best of luck to you,
~D.

"sharing, growing, learning"

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