somnambulism

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on November 18, 2010 at 12:34pm

Testing is my favorite method, particularly obtaining positive and negative hallucinations.

John

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Permalink Reply by Graham Old on November 18, 2010 at 1:01pm

John,

How would that give you "certainty" that you had somnambulism? You can get hallucination with waking trance.


Graham Old
Solutions Therapy
Learn Therapeutic Inductions: Live Training in the UK!

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on November 18, 2010 at 2:02pm

@ John,

I'm with Graham -

Any sense of certainty based on creating positive and negative hallucinations is a false sense of certainty... (Quickly adding) -in my opinion.

I believe that any hypnotist worth his or her salt should easily be able to produce poz and neg hallucinations conversationally --

Hello Cathrine-

There is no scientific way to demonstrate hypnosis, let alone somnambulism-- FYI - I view somnambulistic states as a figment of peoples imaginations with the understanding many people experience coma-like states because that's watch they expect to experience...

Warmest regards,

Michael E.

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Permalink Reply by Bruce Taylor on November 18, 2010 at 4:25pm

Catherine,

Some of us in our area have a get together to discuss hypnosis. During our last meeting we discussed deepeners and why we do them. After I thought about it I seem to do it out of habit and because I was trained how to do it. After that meeting I was wondering in a lot of cases why I would do it because I believe many of my clients had been sufficiently in trance to do the work before I deepened them. I do not have a magic sign that I see to say O.K. here we go. Depending on what you are seeing a client for depends on the depth in my opinion. So there are more talented hypnotists on this sight that can help you more than I, but my opinion is to just do an great pre-talk and the induction is almost guaranteed to be succesful and then go to work. I do a convincer for the client which is an arm levitation and maybe it is a little bit for me and then I go to work if it is successful. A few times I knew the client was in a nice trance and did not do the arm levitation and I still continued with great success.

Sorry for the rambling on. It is a great question and I have found that it is not necessary to be so concerned about it to be able to do succesful work. It is all in their belief of what is happening that counts in my opinion.

Bruce Taylor
www.hypnotistbrucetaylor.com

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Permalink Reply by Bill Kennedy on November 19, 2010 at 3:25am

Wow, Peter

How old is that source? I thought we had stopped thinking of suggestions as "commands" decades ago.

I'm very interested in what makes somnambulism impossible for most people to achieve. Is there some character trait or physical characteristic that prevents them? Or is the answer that most people don't have the time or desire to work at it enough to achieve somnambulism? My perception is that hypnotists don't give their trancepartners credit for the skill it takes to achieve deep trance. Trancepartners are not just lumps of clay to be molded. Remember that one person may be leading the dance, but it really does take two to tango.

Bill


peter davies said:

http://www.learnabouthypnosis.org/phenomenaofhypnotism.php

this article explains something about somnambulism. however it is one of the deepest levels of trance and only a small percentage of people can achieve it.

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Permalink Reply by Cathrine Margit Moller on November 19, 2010 at 3:41am

I am very thankful for all input you all have given me on this issue.
Reason why I asked that question is that I saw an interview given with Dolores Cannon who I hear is a very successful hypnotist. In that interview she talked about always making sure her clients have reached the state of somnambulism and that's the reason why she is so successful.
Now - I have been successful with many clients however there certainly are times when I wonder if my clients are in any state of somnambulism.
I actually think Bill may be right about many people not being able to reach the state of somnambulism.

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Permalink Reply by Cathrine Margit Moller on November 19, 2010 at 4:04am

Thank you, Steve, for having taken that time to do this investigation. I have to say I found the article to be somewhat misinformative on certain topics as well.

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Permalink Reply by Cathrine Margit Moller on November 19, 2010 at 4:18am

Wauv, Peter, reading that remark felt quite harsh for me.
However, it would be interesting to hear about your own background Please let us know more about you.

Thanks.

Cathrine

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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on November 19, 2010 at 5:41am

What makes you think you can't achieve somnambulism with waking trance? Like so called waking trance was any different than a trance where you use the sleep command? I judge somnambulism by the level of dormancy of the critical faculty, which to me is the only real yard stick to measure by.

John

Graham Old said:

John,

How would that give you "certainty" that you had somnambulism? You can get hallucination with waking trance.


Graham Old
Solutions Therapy
Learn Therapeutic Inductions: Live Training in the UK!

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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on November 19, 2010 at 5:51am

Really? Gee...then all those stage shows must just be fakes. As I responded to Graham; to me, the dormancy of the critical faculty (factor) is the prime indicator. The hallucinations are the most obvious test. If their hand is stuck to their head...guess what. Conversationally is nice, but I used to do it with just IM text chat with no induction (they can't close their eyes with that method either).

John

Michael Ellner said:

@ John,

I'm with Graham -

Any sense of certainty based on creating positive and negative hallucinations is a false sense of certainty... (Quickly adding) -in my opinion.

I believe that any hypnotist worth his or her salt should easily be able to produce poz and neg hallucinations conversationally --

Hello Cathrine-

There is no scientific way to demonstrate hypnosis, let alone somnambulism-- FYI - I view somnambulistic states as a figment of peoples imaginations with the understanding many people experience coma-like states because that's watch they expect to experience...

Warmest regards,

Michael E.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on November 19, 2010 at 12:10pm

"I'm very interested in what makes somnambulism impossible for most people to achieve" ....

The belief on the part of the hypnotist that only certain very select people ever achieve it,

Hugh Cole
The Pretty Goodest Hypnotist on the Planet
Limiting belief's really are contagious

ps ,,,, Suggestions and commands are not the same Suggestions can be verbal or non verbal or a combination thereof. They will almost always have a lot of artfully vague but highly descriptive language with them. Commands can be direct .. Feel Good ... or indirect ... You can feel good ..
" High fructose corn syrup can be deleterious to your health " .... is a suggestion to some to avoid HFCS. It is not a direct or indirect command to avoid HFCS,



Bill Kennedy said:

Wow, Peter

How old is that source? I thought we had stopped thinking of suggestions as "commands" decades ago.

I'm very interested in what makes somnambulism impossible for most people to achieve. Is there some character trait or physical characteristic that prevents them? Or is the answer that most people don't have the time or desire to work at it enough to achieve somnambulism? My perception is that hypnotists don't give their trancepartners credit for the skill it takes to achieve deep trance. Trancepartners are not just lumps of clay to be molded. Remember that one person may be leading the dance, but it really does take two to tango.

Bill


peter davies said:

http://www.learnabouthypnosis.org/phenomenaofhypnotism.php

this article explains something about somnambulism. however it is one of the deepest levels of trance and only a small percentage of people can achieve it.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on November 19, 2010 at 1:21pm

@ Hugh-

I basically agree with you about commands and suggestions and we have no way of knowing how the person reacting to the communication will process it--

FYI - I often wonder the about the negative impact the warnings on tobacco products have on lung disease...

@ John

I never know if you are pulling our chains or you really believe what you post...

It is widely known that people can achieve all of the behaviors associated with somnambulism without the "need" for the deep trance state that is indicated by the term somnambulism -- If one is in a "waking state" it is oxymoronic to call it "waking somnambulism" as is the case in the context of this discussion-


@ Bill-

"I'm very interested in what makes somnambulism impossible for most people to achieve" ....

" I agree with Hugh -
"The belief on the part of the hypnotist that only certain very select people ever achieve it,..."

FYI - I am from a generation of hypnos who were taught and believed that we can easily guide just about any one into a profound hypnotic experience. I've been there and done that and over time I have decided that alert states are a better fit for "my" model of "hypnotic" practice...



Warmest regards and best wishes for the holidays to every one reading this... This means you!

Michael E.






Hugh Cole said:

"I'm very interested in what makes somnambulism impossible for most people to achieve" ....

The belief on the part of the hypnotist that only certain very select people ever achieve it,

Hugh Cole
The Pretty Goodest Hypnotist on the Planet
Limiting belief's really are contagious

ps ,,,, Suggestions and commands are not the same Suggestions can be verbal or non verbal or a combination thereof. They will almost always have a lot of artfully vague but highly descriptive language with them. Commands can be direct .. Feel Good ... or indirect ... You can feel good ..
" High fructose corn syrup can be deleterious to your health " .... is a suggestion to some to avoid HFCS. It is not a direct or indirect command to avoid HFCS,



Bill Kennedy said:

Wow, Peter

How old is that source? I thought we had stopped thinking of suggestions as "commands" decades ago.

I'm very interested in what makes somnambulism impossible for most people to achieve. Is there some character trait or physical characteristic that prevents them? Or is the answer that most people don't have the time or desire to work at it enough to achieve somnambulism? My perception is that hypnotists don't give their trancepartners credit for the skill it takes to achieve deep trance. Trancepartners are not just lumps of clay to be molded. Remember that one person may be leading the dance, but it really does take two to tango.

Bill


peter davies said:

http://www.learnabouthypnosis.org/phenomenaofhypnotism.php

this article explains something about somnambulism. however it is one of the deepest levels of trance and only a small percentage of people can achieve it.

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