Steve G. Jones' NLP Certification Course...Thoughts Anyone?

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Permalink Reply by Richard Clark MFT on June 19, 2011 at 5:59am

Jonathan Altfeld said:

 Over time, patterns emerged.  Vibrant, Vivid, and Obvious patterns.  I learned to identify who's been trained by whom, based on their skill level (or lack thereof), and based on what they do & don't know, and based on the style of NLP they exhibit. 

 

 

Hello Jonathan!

I absolutely understand your perspective and believe that the patterns you observe exist to some degree. Particularly identifying a student's previous trainers based on their style.

My experience is somewhat different. I have not had the wide diverse and sustained contact with NLP enthusiasts that you have had, or at least the context has been very different. I've mostly met NLP practitioners at other trainings, events, and networking and practice groups. I've met and interacted with hundreds.

Out of 1-2 dozen practitioners trained by Bandler that I've met, there are only a couple I would refer someone to and that I would consider talented. Similarly I know a few dozen people trained by the Tad James Co. and a few I would recommend. I also know a few dozen people not trained as “Prac, Master Prac, etc...” who are people I would recommend for NLP interventions.

I've met and practiced with a trainer (Prac – Steve B, Master Prac – Bandler, Trainer – Bandler) that I found limited.

A friend of mine that has no formal NLP training attended a course of yours last year and I would be very surprised to hear you thought his skill level was lower then all, most or many of the others in the class that had Master Practitioner credentials regardless of what trainer bestowed them.

Now I do think that the best trainers do provide the greatest skill level improvement to their students. I also do believe that there is a self selection bias that tends to match highly motivated and competent students with the best training so that you can absolutely see the best of the best being trained by the best of the best.

However... Excellent training does not ensure an excellent practitioner in my experience. And an excellent practitioner is not always the product of an excellent trainer. And my experience is that the relationship between practitioner excellence and trainer excellence is not very robust.

Of course my experience is unique and I understand others will have other experiences.

 

Richard

 

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Permalink Reply by Jess Marion on June 19, 2011 at 6:20am

I could not agree more Kevin!  I would even say that scripts for stop smoking or stress reduction or a phobia are just as bad.  If a hypnotherapist doesn't have a strong enough grasp of the basic principles, which will pretty much handle these areas, then maybe they should consider going back for more training..... Then again I tend to be highly opinionated on this particular issue.  

 

Cheers! 

Jess

Kevin Cole-NLPTrainingQuest.com said:

Carroll,

Respectfully, all the more reason I feel a need to speak up when I see practitioners working with scripts when it comes to issues as serious as childhood incest.  Working with scripts for smoking cessation or weight loss is one thing but for the safety and well being of our clients, if you don't know how to handle something as serious as childhood incest without a script- please refer your client to someone who does.

 

It's OK not to know how to work with such a serious issue- that doesn't make someone incompetent.

*Working with it when you don't know what you are doing however, in my  strong opinion- does.

And in dentistry- that's what specialists are for...


-Kevin

P.S. @ Kelley~ I was actually the one that posted the link to the "Age Regression" video- and yes... It is in my opinion a perfect example of the dangers of not knowing what you are doing and or irresponsibly teaching others just enough to make them dangerous...

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Permalink Reply by docregal.com on June 19, 2011 at 6:57am

After all the commentary, I wanted to see for myself the presentation (which actually ended at 6:03 and not the 7 minutes stated above). In that demonstration (not a session, clearly stated in video) Jones presented an interesting analogy, unique phraseology and elements of his approach. Although vastly different from my work, the prior remarks I have read concerning Jones abilities seem to be a bit exaggerated. When we look for the good in others, we can find it. When we look for the bad, we can find that too. It's time for another break in the action. Reloading the coffee cup... (jkg)

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Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on June 19, 2011 at 10:24am

Richard Clark said .....

"Now I do think that the best trainers do provide the greatest skill level improvement to their students. I also do believe that there is a self selection bias that tends to match highly motivated and competent students with the best training so that you can absolutely see the best of the best being trained by the best of the best."

 

     Richard,,,, Most assuredly  This self selection process exists. As one moves into a realm where the relationship between "Human Communication Skills" and the arcane lore of hypnosis, Nlp, and other commercialized varients of same becomes clear, there is no longer a need to learn technique after technique after technique. Rather an essential exploration of  process brings about greater and more flexible improvements in skillsets. It becomes no longer about the Cerbone butterfly, or the Banyan eight word, or the Steve G Jones Hockey Puck(whatever). It becomes about why they work and what can you accomplish with them. It becomes about connecting skillsets into a consistent and usable whole.

       Choose your mentors carefully, limiting beliefs are contagious....

 

      Hugh Cole

         The Pretty Goodest Hypnotist on the Planet!

      

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Cole-NLPTrainingQuest.com on June 19, 2011 at 10:39am

Well, actually Jess... Thanks for agreeing with me, but I do want to be clear.

Although I do not use them personally, I see nothing wrong with using scripts for everyday type challenges such as smoking cessation and weight loss- so long as those scripts are customized to your client and not just read verbatim from a book because well, they could pay $19.95 for a recording if that's all your going to give them.

And I do think it's crucial that a practitioner understand how not to need a script- even if they decide to use a customized one- and if they can't work with a client without one, then I honestly feel they have no business working with clients one/one without- at the very least some kind of supervision from someone training them (and even then, it's still not my method of choice).

The only times I am against using scripts are when working with serious issues where you will need to be extremely flexible in your approach as I mentioned previously.

An example that I think is perfectly appropriate is Richard Nongard. He likes using scripts but he customizes them for every one of his clients and to the best of my knowledge, he pretty much sticks with Smoking Cessation, Weight Loss, and Sports Enhancement and I'm confident that if something happened with a client where he needed to ditch the script and just go with what he already knows how to do- he would do excellent work.

Just wanted to clarify- I don't think there's anything wrong with using a script for simple, everyday issues- IF you also understand how to toss the script and do the work otherwise. Unfortunately I find most of those that have only trained/practiced how to guide individuals into trance and give them positive suggestions via a script do not have that skill set...

 

-Kevin


Jess Marion C.Ht. said:

I could not agree more Kevin!  I would even say that scripts for stop smoking or stress reduction or a phobia are just as bad.  If a hypnotherapist doesn't have a strong enough grasp of the basic principles, which will pretty much handle these areas, then maybe they should consider going back for more training..... Then again I tend to be highly opinionated on this particular issue.  

 

Cheers! 

Jess

Kevin Cole-NLPTrainingQuest.com said:

Carroll,

Respectfully, all the more reason I feel a need to speak up when I see practitioners working with scripts when it comes to issues as serious as childhood incest.  Working with scripts for smoking cessation or weight loss is one thing but for the safety and well being of our clients, if you don't know how to handle something as serious as childhood incest without a script- please refer your client to someone who does.

 

It's OK not to know how to work with such a serious issue- that doesn't make someone incompetent.

*Working with it when you don't know what you are doing however, in my  strong opinion- does.

And in dentistry- that's what specialists are for...


-Kevin

P.S. @ Kelley~ I was actually the one that posted the link to the "Age Regression" video- and yes... It is in my opinion a perfect example of the dangers of not knowing what you are doing and or irresponsibly teaching others just enough to make them dangerous...

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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on June 19, 2011 at 12:11pm

Look! A UFO!  Notice the color of my shirt? LOL

 

John

Fable Goodman said:

Hugh Cole said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAHEXg2U2mg
A humerous look at Steve G. Jones

Hugh

That was so funny Hugh
I wonder if anyone would put it up for approval here on hypnothoughts, and I wonder if anyone might approve it when they do

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