Support Lt. Dan Choi and the fight to repeal Don't Ask - Don't Tell

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com on June 27, 2009 at 7:17pm

They dont have counters in the bathrooms on military bases?

Permalink Reply by Bruce Taylor C.Ht on June 28, 2009 at 3:20am

What about a car Conrad?

Permalink Reply by janadra on June 28, 2009 at 4:45am

Susan, I have signed the petition.
BUT Conrad makes an exceptionally good point.
Hell no. When they fire up the draft people are going to need a way out.

j

Permalink Reply by Roger Moore on June 28, 2009 at 4:51am

I signed the petition and made a Tweet - but, Conrad, you do have a point.

Permalink Reply by Susan French on June 28, 2009 at 6:15am

Conrad,

You're such a good writer and so funny. Maybe you should find out if Bill Maher is taking on new writers...lol.

Beyond that the whole thing is so ridiculous. Why are some people want so invested in imposing their ideas on other people and somehow think they have the right to do so? I've never understood that.

Aahhh well.

Susan

Susan



Conrad Cook said:

Roger Moore, PhD said:

I signed the petition and made a Tweet - but, Conrad, you do have a point.

Ah, don't worry about it. Probably more fair to have gays get drafted too. Then if they want to get out they can just start shooting off their fingers or toes like anyone else.

C.

Permalink Reply by Donna Carter on June 28, 2009 at 7:59am

Packed with felons?

~D.

Permalink Reply by Susan French on June 28, 2009 at 9:06am

Yes, Donna. They've lowered their former standards and have started letting people with criminal records, including felons, join. They've also lowered IQ standards and possibly even mental health standards.

But, mostly, whether you believe in allowing gays to live openly, this guy has served well and they're trying to fire him.

Susan

Donna Rodolph said:

Packed with felons?

~D.

Permalink Reply by Susan French on June 28, 2009 at 9:11am

Hi Conrad,

I know that it's human nature to want people to agree with us. However, it seems as if seem segments of our population feel a greater need to try to impose their own moral, ethical or religious standards on everyone else.

What's worse, it seems mostly like the more people want the government to stay out of their business the more they want to impose their own religious and moral values on others. (Not always, but often.)

S.

Conrad Cook said:

Beyond that the whole thing is so ridiculous. Why are some people want so invested in imposing their ideas on other people and somehow think they have the right to do so? I've never understood that.

Is there a part of civilization that isn't about someone imposing their ideas on others?

I guess the next time they start the draft, they have to decide how to draft women, too. That'll be interesting; women will be getting knocked up left and right so they don't have to serve.

But this, to me, is not interesting. It's mildly amusing that the nation gets in a tizzy over gay soldiers' bragging rights. Because God forbid our trained killers are queer, and talk about it. And God forbid that a guy who signs up to kill and be killed in the line of duty make the horrible, the unimaginable sacrifice of keeping his mouth shut about who he boffs.


Conrad.

Permalink Reply by Susan French on June 29, 2009 at 5:03am

Hi Conrad,

I wanted to post this petition in particular because this is a specific person and I felt that if those among us who agreed wanted to support him, we could do so.

I thought long and hard about my own complaints that this is not a political site and political opinions should not be brought into it.

I should have limited myself to that and not made, as you say, a general statement, bitchy in tone, that should have been left unsaid, at least here. Sometimes my (also) strong opinions slip out. I apologize to those who might have been offended by the statement about people who want government to stay out of their business being the most likely to want to impose their own standards. I was being bitchy. I should have had better discipline.

My own feelings about the issue of "who has the right to impose what on whom" are that 1) I'm sure glad I wasn't one of the founding fathers and 2) the idea, in general, of trying to create law that allows the most personal freedom to everyone while protecting the rights of the most people is totally overwhelming to me. It gives me the same feeling that I get when I look into the sky and think about how far out 'space' goes: I get dizzy just from thinking about the task.

(I hope that made sense. It's early morning.)

I know that it is an impossible task to do perfectly. I know that the foundation of democracy is about trying to find a way to legislate the most freedom for the most people while avoiding impinging on the rights of the most people. And within that task, sometimes the freedom and rights of some have to be impinged on to stay truest to the Constitution. Again, my head spins at the enormity of the job.

And, of course, the thorniest problem of all (as you said) : who gets to determine what is right and what is wrong.

I agree with your points. I try really hard to live by the Golden Rule, including accepting other people's rights to their opinions and to see issues from their own perspectives. I sometimes (maybe often) fail.

Susan





Conrad Cook said:

ps - Coming back to this after dinner, I'm thinking that I got way more preachy than I think I should have.

Well, I have strong opinions about war and the military; nor am I above seeking to foist my ethics on others.

So I'll let the whole thing stand, but to it I'll add:

"...at least that's my opinion."


C.

Permalink Reply by janadra on June 30, 2009 at 3:50am

Susan,

Thank you for posting this. 151,852 people had signed this petition as of Tuesday, 12:29 a.m. PT.

janadra

Permalink Reply by Susan French on June 30, 2009 at 6:37am

Thanks for the update janadra. I so very much hope that we can begin to change laws that exclude people and create new laws that are more inclusive and based more on the "content of one's character."

Susan

janadra said:

Susan,

Thank you for posting this. 151,852 people had signed this petition as of Tuesday, 12:29 a.m. PT.

janadra

Permalink Reply by Donna Carter on June 30, 2009 at 7:07am

I am curious...when does a person decide the content of someone's character?

For example...is it decided when one gets busted for a crime? Or let us say someone does a crime but doesn't get caught, does that mean they have better character? (it would in the eyes of people who didn't know their crimes)
I think there is a good reason for the saying, "better the enemy you know."

The beginning post sounds like you want to exclude felons...and yet, felons are people, too. In the military, my circle of friends were made up of a very diverse group - which included felons. And, actually... the military is a good place for many felons, since it is a lack of direction that may have encouraged their crimes. These people can really thrive with the authoritarian lifestyle the military provides.

I'm pro equal rights for: gays, heteros, low IQ's, high IQ's, & felons.

~D.


Susan French said:

Thanks for the update janadra. I so very much hope that we can begin to change laws that exclude people and create new laws that are more inclusive and based more on the "content of one's character."

Susan

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