Sweat Lodge Guru James Ray charged with Manslaughter

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Permalink Reply by Pattie Freeman CH.t, MST on February 3, 2010 at 10:40pm

I have just seen it on the news brief I wasn't certain what it was about..and I am in Az.
I think this was a Isolated situation..and it has nothing to do with us.
Now they still have to go to trial to see what was the truth so let's not assume.....

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Permalink Reply by Pattie Freeman CH.t, MST on February 3, 2010 at 10:57pm

http://open.salon.com/blog/bonnie_russell/2010/02/03/james_ray_arre...

great link...Boy this is some story surprising....I had met this man about 1 year ago and he had charged alot for hos seminars.....

He had a quick make the money from his clients he packs in 2000+ all at one time....I didnt know this was hom at first.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on February 4, 2010 at 5:41am

Thanks Pattie That was a great link, I have been following the story for a while. It was really hard to believe that people would shell out that kind of money for a seminar. Even harder to believe that they just stayed in there and died,

Hugh Cole
The Pretty Goodest Hypnotist on the Planet

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Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - NLPBoard.com on February 4, 2010 at 9:03am

I don't think it will. Ray did not hold himself out as a hypnotist, focused on the LOA/Metaphyscial side of things.
As for Ray himself, I really think based on the previous problems at prior events, he knew the risks and really botched this. That is the essence of a manslaughter charge. He will get convicted, go broke, and end up using a pen name for future books or ghost writing for others after he gets out of prison.

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Permalink Reply by James Malone on February 4, 2010 at 11:45am

I don't believe this will reflect on our community or our profession. My suspicion is that the trial will reveal this was a tragic example of group psychology gone awry, like the social compliance experiments by Milgram and others. There was probably tremendous Lord of the Flies-like group pressure to not be a "quitter" ("endure the heat and make that breakthrough you've always wanted-you've been backing out your whole life, you can't stop now") and the victims exceeded their physical capacities.

I have attended a reputable survival and tracking school that draws heavily upon Native American traditions and this included doing a sweat lodge. The difference was that our competent instructors were very mindful that us students varied widely in physical conditioning. During the sweat lodge and other strenuous activities we were encouraged to push ourselves, but remain mindful of limitations. And the instructors would pull students aside if they seemed to be going overboard.

If there is a cautionary tale for our community, it would be that even though an altered state of conscious can allow someone to surpass previous boundaries, it doesn't necessarily make it safe to do so. In other words, confidence doesn't equal competence!

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Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on February 4, 2010 at 2:15pm

Young ? No look at my strikingly handsome picture. I have a bit of milage on me. and a bit of grey around the temples. The Branch Davidians were literally in my backyard here in Texas,

Hugh Cole
The Pretty Goodest Hypnotist on the Planet

Ian Jay said:

Hugh

Did Peoples Temple, Solar Temple, Heaven's Gate, Branch Davidians, etc, pass you by?
I don't believe that you are so young as not to remember these, and others ;-)

Ian

Hugh Cole said:

Thanks Pattie That was a great link, I have been following the story for a while. It was really hard to believe that people would shell out that kind of money for a seminar. Even harder to believe that they just stayed in there and died,
Hugh Cole The Pretty Goodest Hypnotist on the Planet

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Permalink Reply by Joe K Fobes on February 4, 2010 at 4:17pm

What I find interesting is that this fellow was a big promoter of the new age law of attraction/the secret stuff. He said that anything that happens to you is what you focus on and therefore attract.

A lot of people have an issue with that as it's kinda fishy to say that all the people in Haiti focused on death and destruction and therefore attracted it. There also the sticky issue of little kids getting abused, did they focus on that?

Anyways, according to him, he himself made this happen.

I'm just sayin.

Joe

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on February 4, 2010 at 10:23pm

Hey Hugh, et al,

I am guessing this will impact the future of "Sweat Lodges" with little or no impact on hypnos like ourselves--

Suggests the power of peer pressure in the heat of the moment can be deadly...

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Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on February 5, 2010 at 8:25am

Sheila, Ian ... On reflection that's exactly why I posted the discussion. Yes it was a terrible accident .. and in my mind at least, a criminal act. It goes to the morality of what he did. It doesn't matter how he or his staff or anyone else "spins" it. or who supports him or who does not. It doesn't even matter that he was getting 10000 a pop for the experience. What matters is that he structured the experience for them and it was his responsibility to ensure thier safety.during the experience. Perhaps the company that built the sweat lodge made a mistake, Who tested the sweat lodge and to what standards? Did they dry run the thing after it was built. Did they have the proper medical monitoring in place. Did they know the real temperature in the lodge. As Ian pointed out this was not an act of God like the Haiti quake. This was an accident that happened for a reason.and that reason goes back to Mr. Ray. .When your people are being Sheeple as they were in the other scenarios we discussed here, as well as in the Sweat lodge, what is the resposibility of the Shepard?

Hugh Cole
The Pretty Goodest Hypnotist on the planet,

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Permalink Reply by Cheryl Janecky on February 5, 2010 at 9:34am

Hi - so happy to find this forum on Twitter - saw this post and feel a sadness at the inadvertent message it is sending. Here's my thoughts on the media portrayal of James Ray.

"Sweatlodge Guru Indicted" is inexcusable media slander of religious views and faiths outside of the mainstream. In Native American traditions the sweatlodge is a sacred space to cleanse the body and mind and to speak with Great Mystery. It is not unlike entering a Church, Temple or Mosque to pray - to Source or God. In one Native culture the word is Inipi - meaning "spirit place" (Tipi meaning living space).

The term "Guru" is Sanskrit, meaning an enlightened one that leads others out of the darkness and into the Light of Source. It is a term used in the Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist traditions - with great reverence. It's been used inappropriately to apply to anyone with a personal growth mission and following. Spend a moment in the presence of a traditional Guru and you will realize how sincerely they embody (and live) the Light of Spirit.

Slander is always inappropriate. How long would our culture tolerate: "Temple Priest or Church Rabi or Mosque Minister" as a descriptive of someone outside those faiths? Awareness is all it takes to change this usage. Spreading slander - even unintentionally - only stops when we recognize it. Thanks for your consideration. Now I feel better.

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Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on February 5, 2010 at 11:05am

Hi Cheryl,
I feel your pain and I am happy I participated even in a small way, in allowing you to vent it. Fact is that part of what you are saying is really foder for discussion here. I completely agree that the sweat lodge is a part of a unique spiritual tradition. It is from a tradition I don't pretend to understand completely, My perception is that Mr. Ray had little (real) respect or understanding of it either and to use it as a "disneyland ride" is highly offensive to me. The word "guru" is another story, it has been bent by common usage for many many years now to describe a person of exceptional knowledge. In our culture we have exercise guru's, computer guru's, cooking gurus, and even our own Hypnosis guru (Richard Nongard). The word has long passed from the sphere where it had only a spiritual or enlightenment context... unfortunate perhaps but true. I don't find it slanderous in that context, where perhaps I would of forty years ago. I don't find the story sensationalized either. It is what it is. A (perhaps well intentioned) huckster taking advantage of a bunch of sheeple looking for enlightment in a bottle, My heart bleeds on both sides of the equation. Something went terribly wrong.

Hugh Cole
The Pretty Goodest Hypnotist on the Planet.

Cheryl Janecky said:

Hi - so happy to find this forum on Twitter - saw this post and feel a sadness at the inadvertent message it is sending. Here's my thoughts on the media portrayal of James Ray.

"Sweatlodge Guru Indicted" is inexcusable media slander of religious views and faiths outside of the mainstream. In Native American traditions the sweatlodge is a sacred space to cleanse the body and mind and to speak with Great Mystery. It is not unlike entering a Church, Temple or Mosque to pray - to Source or God. In one Native culture the word is Inipi - meaning "spirit place" (Tipi meaning living space).

The term "Guru" is Sanskrit, meaning an enlightened one that leads others out of the darkness and into the Light of Source. It is a term used in the Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist traditions - with great reverence. It's been used inappropriately to apply to anyone with a personal growth mission and following. Spend a moment in the presence of a traditional Guru and you will realize how sincerely they embody (and live) the Light of Spirit.

Slander is always inappropriate. How long would our culture tolerate: "Temple Priest or Church Rabi or Mosque Minister" as a descriptive of someone outside those faiths? Awareness is all it takes to change this usage. Spreading slander - even unintentionally - only stops when we recognize it. Thanks for your consideration. Now I feel better.

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Permalink Reply by Cheryl Janecky on February 5, 2010 at 12:30pm

Ian - I am not a supporter of James Ray - nor did anything I discuss imply in any way that I am forgiving or condoning anything - I made a comment on a headline that I feel was catchy media-hype and inappropriate. Period. Everything else you read into my comments is yours - not mine.

Ian Jay said:

Cheryl, had you lost a close relative through this, or had the common decency to not look for an excuse to remove the blame from a person or an organization for this tragedy, I may have agreed with you. That you want to excuse it - is immoral, dishonest, and a blight on the good people of this community.

Now, crawl back to whatever hole you emerged from!


One word from Ray's camp would have made the difference. It's a simple word ...
;
;
;
;
;
;
;

SORRY

Ian

Cheryl Janecky said:

Hi - so happy to find this forum on Twitter - saw this post and feel a sadness at the inadvertent message it is sending. Here's my thoughts on the media portrayal of James Ray.
"Sweatlodge Guru Indicted" is inexcusable media slander of religious views and faiths outside of the mainstream. In Native American traditions the sweatlodge is a sacred space to cleanse the body and mind and to speak with Great Mystery. It is not unlike entering a Church, Temple or Mosque to pray - to Source or God. In one Native culture the word is Inipi - meaning "spirit place" (Tipi meaning living space). The term "Guru" is Sanskrit, meaning an enlightened one that leads others out of the darkness and into the Light of Source. It is a term used in the Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist traditions - with great reverence. It's been used inappropriately to apply to anyone with a personal growth mission and following. Spend a moment in the presence of a traditional Guru and you will realize how sincerely they embody (and live) the Light of Spirit. Slander is always inappropriate. How long would our culture tolerate: "Temple Priest or Church Rabi or Mosque Minister" as a descriptive of someone outside those faiths? Awareness is all it takes to change this usage. Spreading slander - even unintentionally - only stops when we recognize it. Thanks for your consideration. Now I feel better.

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