Talkin about "trance" and "hypnosis" -- What is the relationship between "hypnosis" and "tra

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Permalink Reply by Roy Hunter on January 26, 2012 at 12:17pm

I think Mark was on target. Let me illustrate with the specific example of driving...

Road hypnosis is not slang, but reality. Anytime someone misses the exit on the freeway, or forgets to turn at an intersection, he/she was in a trance. Also, beware of the trance-inducing dotted lines on a road while driving long distances. Personally, I sometimes open the driver's window briefly even if it is cold, in order to stay in focus behind the wheel. Additionally, I say to clients while awakening them from hypnosis: "Any time and every time you get behind the wheel of a motor vehicle, you are totally alert and responsive to any and all road and traffic situations."

I believe that programming the above into my own subconscious has helped me avoid more than one accident over the years. For example, I can get totally caught up in my own thoughts while singing along with the music on the radio; and then find myself reacting suddenly to an unexpected situation because a part of me remains aware while driving.

Also, how many people go on automatic pilot snacking excessively while trancing out in front of a TV show?

Roy Hunter

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Bill Kennedy on January 27, 2012 at 4:43am

I'd like to nuance this discussion by saying that trance is a natural state, but not the only one.  To take the example of driving:  clearly when an experienced driver is in good driving conditions, with a reliable car, on a familiar route, they are probably in trance, i.e. letting their subconscious determine their actions.  If however, they were new to driving, in deep fog with a car making weird grinding noises, going to a friend's cottage without a map, I'm willing to bet that they will be making each decision and move consciously, i.e. not in trance.

Because the subconscious uses automatic responses based on learned triggers, it is much faster and energy efficient.  Therefore it makes sense to let it take over when the conscious mind trusts it to do the job.  For example, have you ever met someone who played a musical instrument beautifully in practice, but stumbled in performance?  The anxiety associated with performing in front of an audience is probably keeping their conscious mind from letting the subconscious do its job, in other words, preventing the person from going into musical trance.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on January 27, 2012 at 5:03am

Point well taken - Bill-

I agree trance states are not the only state we have access to. I agree that we are able to override the trance we are in by being in the moment--  but having said that trance states do tend to be the default states for most people most of their time.

I disagree with your musician analogy --  I say your musician is in a trance when he or she experience performance anxiety and our job is to help them move out of that trance and into the same trance they are in when they practice beautifully...

Bill Kennedy said:

I'd like to nuance this discussion by saying that trance is a natural state, but not the only one.  To take the example of driving:  clearly when an experienced driver is in good driving conditions, with a reliable car, on a familiar route, they are probably in trance, i.e. letting their subconscious determine their actions.  If however, they were new to driving, in deep fog with a car making weird grinding noises, going to a friend's cottage without a map, I'm willing to bet that they will be making each decision and move consciously, i.e. not in trance.

Because the subconscious uses automatic responses based on learned triggers, it is much faster and energy efficient.  Therefore it makes sense to let it take over when the conscious mind trusts it to do the job.  For example, have you ever met someone who played a musical instrument beautifully in practice, but stumbled in performance?  The anxiety associated with performing in front of an audience is probably keeping their conscious mind from letting the subconscious do its job, in other words, preventing the person from going into musical trance.

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Permalink Reply by Bill Kennedy on January 27, 2012 at 6:22am

@ Michael - fair enough, particularly if the musician has a history of performance anxiety.

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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on January 27, 2012 at 12:04pm

I feel that hypnosis is just the process to manifest a hypnotic trance.

While most dictionaries have definitions of trance similar to this one:

trance (trans) a sleeplike state of altered consciousness marked by heightened focal awareness and reduced peripheral awareness.

I think with how common open eye trance or waking trance is now...this definition can no longer be taken seriously, except for the reduced peripheral awareness in the case of a hypnotic trance state.

I personally identify trance as a state where we will automatically react to input without the involvement of the intellect.

In what I define as a natural trance state...the input we automatically react to comes from the senses.

In a hypnotic trance state, the input we automatically react to is received via suggestion.

The commonality that makes them both a trance state is the fact that it is automatic reaction..without the involvement of the intellect.

In the musician example above, performance anxiety will have the musician think (focus his attention) about what he is trying to play instead of just automatically reacting and playing it, and the fear will prevent the mind from functioning up to usual par.

I agree that a natural trance state is the default state for any familiar activity.

John

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Permalink Reply by Jesus Gonzalez on January 27, 2012 at 3:34pm

I agree totally.

Any function or proccess we take into reality creates a product itself as a result of every action we took. If you notice, in hypnosis we are always going through proccesses, or steps, through sensorial input to create some kind of product, which can be relaxation, or being excited, and only after we go through the proccess, we notice the product or (reality) result that we created.

And we are doing this constantly, while reading, writing, walking, drinking water, standing up, sitting down, being attracted, being excited, being X, anything thats related with actions. Old greek say that when we are excited and in an erotic state, we are aroused by Eros. I think that this is like this as far as my memory goes.

So we are aroused by our actions that we consciously can take power over it and break the pattern into new actions. I would translate this as breaking the proccess and starting a new one from zero point (or FROM NOW ON) to create "a new version of (?you?)", not a version, this is just a metaphor, but a product of yourself in one action, as being good and relaxed instead of nervous when in front of a group of people, or being relaxed, feeling fine, seeing yourself as a good person who can do whatever he propose, and producting benefits/working to keep his house running and continue eating and taking care of yourself, instead of being lazy and being nervous because you/client/whoever was taking drugs, and generally these bad parts of their life's proccesses were active, creating bad products, which is, bad health, bad economy... (nouns) So this pattern should be broken and already creating the new proccesses to create new good products, and realize about these changes which he took using his unconscious and consciously so confirming them logically, then they PRODUCTed the trances in his life HIMSELF through proccesses that he made in the past by his own hand 

Just some thoughts I wanted to share as I saw this thread.

Have a good day everyone.

Jesus

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Permalink Reply by Jesus Gonzalez on January 27, 2012 at 3:53pm

I would name TRANCE (noun): as the product (result) > of the proccesses that are happening when the hypnotist THE PERSON UNDER "HYPNOSIS" is changing his current proccesses which is creating a kind of product, into a new proccesses which will create a new product,, in the future.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on January 27, 2012 at 6:11pm

@ Jesus

 

***LIKE***

 

@ All of us-

I think thinking is over-rated and I believe that when people become caught up in thinking they are in one of the most profound and yet transparent trance states human beings can experience.  Just think of all the negative stress that pops up when people ruminate: I woulda, shuda, cudda, blah, blah, blah...!

I tell my clients and advanced students, when it comes to hypnosis, if you are thinking about it ... you are not experiencing hypnosis ... you are experiencing thinking about experiencing hypnosis!

@ Newly certified hypnos and students

I predict that sooner or later, you will discover that it is easy to help your clients change behavior by helping them move outside the trances that empower and give life to their unwanted behaviors.

I model excellence and doing so has taught me to appreciate that people are much more effective when they are completely focused on what they are doing without thinking about it.  My clients and I have discovered that we lose the "magic" the nano-second we start thinking about it as it is happening!   Intentional relaxation and mindfulness is the foundation of Alan Barsky's and my Quantum Focusing programs.  We and  our clients are at our best when we work and play in highly, alert, mindful "trance" states focusing our attention on doing what we are doing.  It is easy to know when you have arrived at this optimal target state because one becomes aware of and experiences time in slow-motion, real time and quick time at the same time it is happening ..... without thinking about it!

Think about it...

Jesus Gonzalez said:

I agree totally.

 

Any function or proccess we take into reality creates a product itself as a result of every action we took. If you notice, in hypnosis we are always going through proccesses, or steps, through sensorial input to create some kind of product, which can be relaxation, or being excited, and only after we go through the proccess, we notice the product or (reality) result that we created.

 

And we are doing this constantly, while reading, writing, walking, drinking water, standing up, sitting down, being attracted, being excited, being X, anything thats related with actions. Old greek say that when we are excited and in an erotic state, we are aroused by Eros. I think that this is like this as far as my memory goes.

 

So we are aroused by our actions that we consciously can take power over it and break the pattern into new actions. I would translate this as breaking the proccess and starting a new one from zero point (or FROM NOW ON) to create "a new version of (?you?)", not a version, this is just a metaphor, but a product of yourself in one action, as being good and relaxed instead of nervous when in front of a group of people, or being relaxed, feeling fine, seeing yourself as a good person who can do whatever he propose, and producting benefits/working to keep his house running and continue eating and taking care of yourself, instead of being lazy and being nervous because you/client/whoever was taking drugs, and generally these bad parts of their life's proccesses were active, creating bad products, which is, bad health, bad economy... (nouns) So this pattern should be broken and already creating the new proccesses to create new good products, and realize about these changes which he took using his unconscious and consciously so confirming them logically, then they PRODUCTed the trances in his life HIMSELF through proccesses that he made in the past by his own hand 

 

Just some thoughts I wanted to share as I saw this thread.

 

Have a good day everyone.

Jesus

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Permalink Reply by Don on January 27, 2012 at 10:42pm

A definition must draw a distinction between what you are defining and other things which are not part of this definition. If everything which we are and do is included in our concept of trance, then the definition loses all usefulness because it does not distinguish between what is trance and what is not trance. If trance is "whatever mental state we are in at any particular moment," as the moderator stated, then fainting, coma, and sleep are also part of trance.

I am, as the French would say, "Enchanté" (or "entranced") by this discussion; but it's 2:31 AM Eastern Standard time, and I hope you will excuse me while I go back to my sleep trance.

Don

  

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Permalink Reply by Bill Kennedy on January 28, 2012 at 2:34am

This discussion reminds me of the end of Voltaire's Candide

Travaillons sans raisonner, dit Martin; c’est le seul moyen de rendre la vie supportable.

• "Let's work without thinking," said Martin. "It's the only way to make life livable."

All's for the best in this best of all possible worlds!  ;-)

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Permalink Reply by docregal.com on January 28, 2012 at 3:19am

Michael, you asked. Here is my perspective on this quote:

"Trance is whatever mental state we are in at any particular moment, whether we create it or simply find ourselves in it at that moment. We drive in a driving trance, we play piano in a play piano trance, we are afraid of heights in an afraid of heights trance, we are in pain in an I am in pain trance. We move from trance to trance - constantly either making or breaking trance. I believe that trance is our natural state of mind and hypnosis the natural mental process of shifting from one trance to another with the power of thought."

First of all, the primary issue at hand to address is lucidity of mind, i.e. accessibility to absolute truth, i.e. "knowing". Thus, trance is an active mental brain state for it reflects the ego, i.e. "educated guessing", probability, chance. Trance can be used as a wedge into hypnosis. It is dissociative. Trance "diminishes" ones level of mental awareness by shifting brain states from conscious to semiconscious to subconscious. Hypnosis, which embraces spirit, can be induced without trance. It is associative. Hypnosis "enhances" mindfulness (access to the unconscious) by utilizing focused attention (monoideism) to boost receptivity to suggestions and yield access to "the other side", i.e. the "time continuum", the realm of 4-D, i.e. "Immersion".

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Permalink Reply by Don on January 28, 2012 at 6:33am

Hi Folks,

I would like to respectfully suggest that when a definition expands to include everything, it has lost its usefulness as a definition and needs to be discarded.

I got the shock of my life a few years ago when Steven J. Lynn, who was chairing the paper session in which I was presenting at SCEH, cut me off in mid-sentence when I said the word "trance" by saying, "Oh, we don't use the word 'trance' any more." 

"Why not?" I asked him incredulously.

Now I know why.

Don

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