Talking Point: Instant Inductions and Modern Hypnotic Practice - Gil Boyne in Budapest

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kevin Cole-NLPTrainingQuest.com on November 20, 2009 at 1:23am

Gutsy questions, Michael. I respect that...

My answers:

1) Not mine. Far from it but I respect different styles so long as they know what they are doing and get the result. I believe Gil to fall into the latter categories.

2) Again, it's not the way that I choose to do it and in my courses I teach that instant inductions, often called *shock inductions* like this have been used by Gil (along with sharing with students that I did train with him) and that he knows exactly what he is doing, however I strongly suggest NOT using them in a clinical setting. I only suggest using them for stage hypnosis. Again however, I emphasize that Gil does know exactly what he is doing with these kinds of inductions and with the kind of hypnotherapy that he performs, his approach is quite acceptable to me...

3) I believe that convincers are valuable as this gives the client more of an *experience* which helps those that question whether or not they were in hypnosis/trance in the first place. That being said, I do not always use them.

As you may already know, Michael, I mostly use traditional hypnosis at the end of my sessions to *seal in* the work that I have done with clients via more of an NLP approach and therefore no formal induction is necessary as the client has already been guided into trance through other closed eye exercises and has already had plenty of *experiences* to let them know that they were most definitely in trance....


Kevin
NLP Training

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on November 20, 2009 at 2:32am

Gutsy answers Kevin -- I respect that -- Thanks

me

Kevin Cole said:

Gutsy questions, Michael. I respect that...
My answers:
1) Not mine. Far from it but I respect different styles so long as they know what they are doing and get the result. I believe Gil to fall into the latter categories.

2) Again, it's not the way that I choose to do it and in my courses I teach that instant inductions, often called *shock inductions* like this have been used by Gil (along with sharing with students that I did train with him) and that he knows exactly what he is doing, however I strongly suggest NOT using them in a clinical setting. I only suggest using them for stage hypnosis. Again however, I emphasize that Gil does know exactly what he is doing with these kinds of inductions and with the kind of hypnotherapy that he performs, his approach is quite acceptable to me...

3) I believe that convincers are valuable as this gives the client more of an *experience* which helps those that question whether or not they were in hypnosis/trance in the first place. That being said, I do not always use them.

As you may already know, Michael, I mostly use traditional hypnosis at the end of my sessions to *seal in* the work that I have done with clients via more of an NLP approach and therefore no formal induction is necessary as the client has already been guided into trance through other closed eye exercises and has already had plenty of *experiences* to let them know that they were most definitely in trance....


Kevin
NLP Training

Permalink Reply by GIL BOYNE on November 20, 2009 at 9:56am

Dear Michaerl Ellner, colleagues, friends and others, It is wonderful to read the differing views about what is perceived as my sole approach to induction. So, I thought I might include a few facts; 1}Yes, I use the induction with every client, rarely do I
need to change tactics and go to another induction. I developed the "Instant induction" from intensive research in the works of the Russian physiologists Pavlov and Platnov. Most especially from the great work,"The word as a Physiologic and Therapeutic Factor". In the first chapter, Platnov writes; The word,"SLEEP" spoken in an appropriate context, produces vegatative and endocrine changes that correspond to the same changes occuring in nocturnal sleep" It took me several years to understand what he was saying, in essence, The brain and central nervous system respond instantly to verbal commands when spoken in an appropriate context. Think of hearing"FIRE", HELP",etc.I spent another year studying neurology to realize that hypnotists drone on endlessly (deeper and deeper in sleeper in sleep) thereby using up to thirty minutes of clients fee --paying time to maybe induce a trance. I consider drawn-out inductions "unethical"., when the time might otherwise be used to double the time spent doing therapy.The CNS responds to a fractional relaxation induction because it soon recognizes the monotony and lack of content and the conscious awareness becomes bored. The "Instant Induction" creates a mild overload effect on the CNS and a split second of passivity which is when and how the trance occurs. 2} Although, it may appear that the neck is JERKED (your word) it is a sudden pull, using using the thumb to turn the head so that their nose does not make contact with my shoulder and my three middle fingers are upright on the back of their head to prevent the subject from jerking his head backward. I have used it many thousands of times including on more than 250 tv. appearances world-wide ( I never precondition TV subjects) and never had a word of complaint. Although. many hypnotists have told me that at NGH Conferences whenever my name comes up, they are told, "Oh yes, with his "neck-jerking", he has had numerous numerous law suits for causing whiplash".If I had ever had one law suit, I would never had used it again

Michael says--- Although, I recognize and deeply appreciate Gil Boyne's huge professional standing and contributions to the field, I am asking the questions below because I do not believe that the demonstrations that he shared with us reflect modern hypnotic practice and I wonder what other members of Hypnothoughts.com think about it.
Gil says--Michael, This tactic is an old one one, "I think Joe is a fine fellow BUTxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
You have never been taught the induction, never used it, know nothing about the dynamics of it, never taught it to others, you just want to find others who agree with your very limited views.
"As to "modern hypnotic practice", who are you to define it? If I'm doing it, it's part of modern practice !
There are a few on the forum who wish to portray me as a "dinosaur" from the old.old days of hypnotic practice.
Go to my website and read the honors and awards that have been given to me from professional societies world-wide
then go to your own website and count those you have received. Is everyone else "unseeing" but you?
Here's the big question, Michael, why can't you do things your way and allow me (and others) to do things my way?
PS. I have struggled greatly to stay with the boundaries of "civilized discourse" in this missive.

Permalink Reply by Andreas Tenhagen on November 20, 2009 at 11:06am

GIL BOYNE said:

Go to my website and read the honors and awards that have been given to me from professional societies world-wide then go to your own website and count those you have received. Is everyone else "unseeing" but you? Here's the big question, Michael, why can't you do things your way and allow me (and others) to do things my way?
PS. I have struggled greatly to stay with the boundaries of "civilized discourse" in this missive.

Hy Gil, I think its not the questions of honor and awards.

As far as I can see, and with my poor english understand, Michael just asked some questions. Whats wrong about it? Its a free community and why not discuss about it?

What I notice, is that we all treat you and your style with respect....so why can´t you?

I must say, I haven´t tried your instant induction till now.....but I really want. What hinders me is that we tried it in the peergroup and the subject had neck-problems after that.

I think we all learn a lot from your experience therefore I m in your masterclass.

Greetings Andreas

Permalink Reply by Lee Pelletier on November 20, 2009 at 11:07am

Roy Hunter said it so well. There are many ways to get from Seattle to Denver. There are a multitude of ways to get a client into trance.

Each of us has our own levels of comfort based upon our own personalities and experiences. As we try new things, and grow more comfortable then our confidence grows as well. My unique approach to hypnosis is the understanding of an individual's DISC profile (a business instrument that I find invaluable). In thumbnail the four letters are associated with the word Dominance, Influence, Steadiness and Compliance. The Dominance profile is characterized by loving challenges, what is new and exciting and even flashy. The Influencing style is characterized by the approach to people. The steadiness is characterized by taking a slow and steady approach to relationships and tasks. The Compliance is oriented toward obeying or following rules and procedures set by others. Folks that Roy calls Analytical Resisters are most likely to be "C" Factor high. As hypnotists, overall, the "D" factor high hypnotist is going to be drawn to the "flashier approaches" and the faster approaches (they are about 13% of the US Population). The "I" factor high person is also going to want to "look good" and will want to "charm" people into trance with their personalities (about 29% of the US Population). The "S" factor high hypnotist is going to love the progressive relaxation induction or the Elman induction--which is slow for the "D" or "I" ("S" factor high is about 45% of the US population). The "C" is going to want to have exact procedures and be uncomfortable with variance. If you tell a "C" that eye flutter is a trance marker, then they will tend to get bogged down watching for the "eye flutter" and lose the other markers ("C" factor high makes up about 9% of the US population). Why does this matter? What does this have to do with the topic?

If you read the responses to Michael's question/comment you will see elements of the different styles. Yet to be effective we all have to be able to adapt to the styles of other people. If we are "D" factor high and we have a slow and steady client, we will serve that client better by adapting to his or her needs. If we are natural charmers (I Factor High) and dealing with a "C" factor high, we had better know what we are talking about because the "C" will not trust a charmer. If you want resistance, try to rush an "S". If you want anger, tell a "D" he or she is "wrong" about anything. Are these generalizations? of course they are. Are they useful in being more effective as hypnosis professionals? Again, of course they are. If, for example, you tell a "C" that he or she will likely experience a certain trance phenomena in a certain way, then you had better produce. Otherwise they won't believe they are in trance. I had one "C" client disqualify me as a hypnotist because of a spelling error in a brochure. If I couldn't spell right, I probably couldn't be relied upon to hypnotize her right either.

Gil has made amazing contributions to the field of hypnosis. I have to say that at the NGH, when I have heard his name spoken it has been with respect and admiration. At the same time, we all can fall into the trap of over identifying or over labeling (as with the DISC system mentioned above). I deeply appreciated his explanation of how he came to use that technique, and the underlying factors in its effectiveness.

As Roy said, there are many ways to get from Seattle to Denver. I don't generally have time to drive a trip like that (progressive relaxation) and my overall preference is SST (Supersonic Transport or "Rapid" induction). Each has their own style, their own preference, and we are all getting better and better every day.

Permalink Reply by Roy Hunter on November 20, 2009 at 11:39am

Hello Lee,

Thanks for your comments. We’ve all had different experiences. Part of my reluctance to use the rapid induction that Gil uses successfully stems from having suffered a sore neck for a week after another student in the class at the Tebbetts institute jerked my neck too far and too fast. Nonetheless, I’ll quote some words from Charles Tebbetts:
“Nothing speaks louder than results.”

Does Gil get results? Yes…I witnessed him working with someone who stuttered back in the 1980’s, and a year later I had breakfast with that person. He spoke so fluently that I forgot he was the “stutterer” until he reminded me. So whether or not you like the route that Gil takes with his clients, he gets results.

Gil also has taught some outstanding hypnotherapists. For example, Randall Churchill was personally trained by Gil, and is one of the world’s leading authorities on regression therapy. Although his style is a little more paternal than mine, he gets outstanding results, and I highly recommend his book: REGRESSION THERAPY. You can get it directly from his website at:
http://www.transformingpress.com/

Note that Randall does not even know that I’m recommending his book here. It is simply a book that needs to be in the library of every hypnotherapist.

Best wishes to all,
Roy Hunter, M.S., FAPHP

Permalink Reply by GIL BOYNE on November 20, 2009 at 2:34pm

Hello Andreas, Since you are in the Master Class, I will explain further about the success of the "Instant Induction".
It combines a partial loss of equilibrium with an instant of passivity of the subconscious mind and the use of a startling command (spoken in a raised voice, not a shout) and the pre-statement to the client: "Most inductions of hypnosis can take up to thirty minutes of your time.
I have developed a method that brings you into hypnosis in a few seconds and we will have much more time to do the work. Is that agreeable to you ? They always say "YES". For TV and public demonstrations I eliminate the explanation.
The client's need and desire for help cause agreement. They are never concerned with (oh,0h, please don't touch me") or ("don,t wave your hand in front of my face, you might scare me") These thoughts are often simply the projection of the therapist's own fears. Yes, if one has NOT been properly taught by another who has mastered the technique and THEN experienced it themselves, the improper use of it by an unlearned, unskilled person may cause a temporary muscular pain. Many think they can watch a youtube clip and duplicate what they see. Roy Hunter says that another student in his class taught by CharlesTebbetts (a Boyne graduate and protege) hurt his neck with the incorrect use of the technique in a practice session. I teach it in slow-motion, in peraon as well as on film. Then, everyone in class who chooses to do so comes forward and I use the "Instant Induction" on them, both slow motion and very quickly as well. Only then, are they permitted to practice it with other class members. As to the value of "Honors", they have the least value to those who do not have them. I have been awarded four Honorary Doctoral Degrees but I never use the title Dr. or use the Degree title after my name nor do I permit anyone to call me Doctor. Yet, there are many that have paid seven to ten thousand dollars for a home study degree, "Doctor of Clinical Hypnotherapy", a degree that is non-existant in all accredited Universities..

Lee said, I have to say that at the NGH, when I have heard his name spoken it has been with respect and admiration.

Lee I agree that I have heard similar positive feedback from NGH attendees, that does not negate that I have heard many times about the lawsuits filed against me for "whiplash injuries" which is deliberate propaganda technique. I neither expect nor demand respect as I have had much and continue to receive more than my share, but I will always work to correct untrue statements and misunderstandings
Andreas Tenhagen said:

GIL BOYNE said:

Gil, I think its not the questions of honor and awards.

As far as I can see, and with my poor english understand, Michael just asked some questions. Whats wrong about it? Its a free community and why not discuss about it?

What I notice, is that we all treat you and your style with respect....so why can´t you?

I must say, I haven´t tried your instant induction till now.....but I really want. What hinders me is that we tried it in the peergroup and the subject had neck-problems after that.

I think we all learn a lot from your experience therefore I m in your masterclass.

Greetings Andreas

Permalink Reply by Kevin Cole-NLPTrainingQuest.com on November 20, 2009 at 4:25pm

And that's Gil Boyne, ladies and gentleman. A man that stands up for what he believes in and stands against that which he feels is wrong or untrue. If you asked me to describe Gil in one word, that word would be Integrity.

Is he authoritarian? In my opinion, Yes... As a matter of fact, when describing the difference between Direct/Authoritarian hypnosis and Indirect/Permissive hypnosis, I mention two men. Both great hypnotherapists and pioneers in our field that I believe we all owe a lot to...

What are their names?

Gil Boyne

Milton Erickson

I find that using a blend of both *permissive* and *authoritarian* hypnosis to be quite effective, especially when some clients respond better to one or the other and more often then not, a blend of both...

By the way, if you've ever studied Erickson, you will understand that there are MANY ways that he worked with clients that I would never do in my office including having a client (Mondy) reliving every moment of being spanked for breaking a window when she was a child as Erickson leaned into her while he was wearing a bright purple jumpsuit.

Does that mean that Erickson didn't know exactly what he was doing? Nope...

Does that mean that he ever gave the field of hypnosis/hypnotherapy a *bad name* for his very *unique* style? Nope...

Does that mean that his work is not, to this day, well respected by many in the field of traditional psychology? Nope...

And the last 3 *Does that mean* questions all apply to Gil as well...

IMO, he does know exactly what he is doing, he has only given a positive name to our field, and he is one of the few that have gained the respect of many in the field of traditional psychology. Although you can purchase a hypnosis PHD for the right price, they don't give honorary degrees to people off the street.

Just felt like adding that as I think I would appreciate someone doing so when I'm in my 80's and being questioned about how I've helped thousands of people to live a much higher quality of life... (By the way, I like both the questions and the responses from this post)...


Kevin Cole
NLP Training



GIL BOYNE said:

Hello Andreas, Since you are in the Master Class, I will explain further about the success of the "Instant Induction".
It combines a partial loss of equilibrium with an instant of passivity of the subconscious mind and the use of a startling command (spoken in a raised voice, not a shout) and the pre-statement to the client: "Most inductions of hypnosis can take up to thirty minutes of your time.
I have developed a method that brings you into hypnosis in a few seconds and we will have much more time to do the work. Is that agreeable to you ? They always say "YES". For TV and public demonstrations I eliminate the explanation.
The client's need and desire for help cause agreement. They are never concerned with (oh,0h, please don't touch me") or ("don,t wave your hand in front of my face, you might scare me") These thoughts are often simply the projection of the therapist's own fears. Yes, if one has NOT been properly taught by another who has mastered the technique and THEN experienced it themselves, the improper use of it by an unlearned, unskilled person may cause a temporary muscular pain. Many think they can watch a youtube clip and duplicate what they see. Roy Hunter says that another student in his class taught by CharlesTebbetts (a Boyne graduate and protege) hurt his neck with the incorrect use of the technique in a practice session. I teach it in slow-motion, in peraon as well as on film. Then, everyone in class who chooses to do so comes forward and I use the "Instant Induction" on them, both slow motion and very quickly as well. Only then, are they permitted to practice it with other class members. As to the value of "Honors", they have the least value to those who do not have them. I have been awarded four Honorary Doctoral Degrees but I never use the title Dr. or use the Degree title after my name nor do I permit anyone to call me Doctor. Yet, there are many that have paid seven to ten thousand dollars for a home study degree, "Doctor of Clinical Hypnotherapy", a degree that is non-existant in all accredited Universities..

Lee said, I have to say that at the NGH, when I have heard his name spoken it has been with respect and admiration.

Lee I agree that I have heard similar positive feedback from NGH attendees, that does not negate that I have heard many times about the lawsuits filed against me for "whiplash injuries" which is deliberate propaganda technique. I neither expect nor demand respect as I have had much and continue to receive more than my share, but I will always work to correct untrue statements and misunderstandings
Andreas Tenhagen said:

GIL BOYNE said:

Gil, I think its not the questions of honor and awards.

As far as I can see, and with my poor english understand, Michael just asked some questions. Whats wrong about it? Its a free community and why not discuss about it?

What I notice, is that we all treat you and your style with respect....so why can´t you?

I must say, I haven´t tried your instant induction till now.....but I really want. What hinders me is that we tried it in the peergroup and the subject had neck-problems after that.

I think we all learn a lot from your experience therefore I m in your masterclass.

Greetings Andreas

Permalink Reply by GIL BOYNE on November 21, 2009 at 6:48am

Hello Kevin, Thank you for your impersonal and fair description of my "style' (which takes many forms) and for the choice of the word "integrity"

Kevin said; Is he authoritarian? In my opinion, Yes... As a matter of fact, when describing the difference between Direct/Authoritarian hypnosis and Indirect/Permissive hypnosis, I mention two men. Both great hypnotherapists and pioneers in our field that I believe we all owe a lot to;..

What are their names?

Gil Boyne and Milton Erickson

I find that using a blend of both *permissive* and *authoritarian* hypnosis to be quite effective, especially when some clients respond better to one or the other and more often then not, a blend of both..

Gil Responds ;Although I do not call my work "Ericksonian", I learned from Milton that the most effective hypnotherapist is one who can quickly discern the clients needs in terms of "style and approach" and adjust to it immediately. He taught that the best hypnotherapists are neither "authoritarian nor "permissive" as a matter of the therapists personality, or the therapist's "comfort level". Client's do not pay a fee to keep the therapist in their "comfort zone". There is a an ever changing continuum between "Authoritarium and directive and permissive or non-directive". Further, everyone is conditioned from the earliest years to respond to authority and why not use the subconscious emotional power of the stereotypical "power of the hypnotist? I ask everyone reading this, " can you say to your subject in a hard tone,"stop playing dumb with me" or "that's pitiful! You can't even imagine how your life would change if you solved these problems"
The technique is called "Confrontation" and "Potency", two of the ten traits of a successful therapist.
I often use "the Iron Hand in a Velvet Glove" principle with children or frightened, nervous or suspicious clients.
As to Erickson, his devotees have watered down and even eliminated his own examples of his authoritarian approaches.
In his text "Hypnosis in Healing", he tells of ordering a female client tp remove all of her clothes and lay down on the floor. (One example of many that Erickson himself wrote about).Finally, as to the "Instant Induction", it is only used on the very first induction with a client then while they are still in trance, they are conditioned to reenter trance in response to a verbal command or even a handshake. When they arrive for subsequent sessions, a handsake does the trick.
That's all folks, (for now)
.

Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on November 21, 2009 at 7:01am

Aha...I now see the real purpose of this thread! Michael Ellner, you are sneaky!!! Asking these provoking questions to get Gil Boyne to reveal some of his trade secrets!!

Lucky readers are getting some of what we in his Master Online class have paid green rectangles to learn...

HypnoThoughts rules!

Permalink Reply by GIL BOYNE on November 21, 2009 at 7:11am

Kelly, You are a delight and I am so pleased that you have joined my Master Class on Line. You are right, I have been revealing "inner Secrets" and I will be more careful in the future. PS. I enjoy all your posts.

Kelley Woods said:

Aha...I now see the real purpose of this thread! Michael Ellner, you are sneaky!!! Asking these provoking questions to get Gil Boyne to reveal some of his trade secrets!!

Lucky readers are getting some of what we in his Master Online class have paid green rectangles to learn...

HypnoThoughts rules!

Permalink Reply by Andreas Tenhagen on November 21, 2009 at 7:31am

SteveH said:

Personally, I think that there is weak but real anti Gill agenda here.



I

Hy Steve,

I think that nobody wants to start some "Anti-Gil"-stuff here. He really is a great man and his results and what he is willing to share with us are phantastic.

And you see it in the answers, that no one here in this community earns more respect then Gil. And thats how I understand the questioning of Michael......of course, it is not easy to start a discussion of a certain technique not to mention the master of it.

@ Gil,

thanks for your answers and very interesting insights of your technique.

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