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The Bateson - Erickson Connection & 'Shoddy Epistemology'
I'm originally Erickson Foundation-trained, and also have a background in NLP and academic psychology.
Over the last few years I've been studying Bateson - both books and the Esalen lectures. It seems pretty obvious to me now that he was the lynchpin in the development of NLP.
Granted it was a group effort, but it seems to me that he was a critcal part of it, especially the bits which came to be know as 'New Code'.
My question to the community is, how much do you know about the collaborations between Bateson and Erickson?
I've found bits and pieces, such at the Erickson documentary (dir. Jeff Zeig?) which mentions Milton and Betty's involvement with the Balinese trance dance films (they helped Bateson spot who was really in trance, and who was faking).
Also found a Bateson book in the university library, "Balinese Character", written in 1942 with acknowledgements to Erickson. It goes on to demonstrate Balinese dance instruction methods, using the words Visual, and Kinesthetic.
And then there's the fact Bateson sent Bandler & Grinder to Erickson, leading to the Milton Model. He later criticised it as 'shoddy epistemology'. My interpretation of that comment is that it was an incomplete model (language patterns only), and didn't sufficiently describe what Erickson did.
So, I'll open it to the floor. Any other opinions, information sources, etc. would be very much appreciated.
Over the last few years I've been studying Bateson - both books and the Esalen lectures. It seems pretty obvious to me now that he was the lynchpin in the development of NLP.
Granted it was a group effort, but it seems to me that he was a critcal part of it, especially the bits which came to be know as 'New Code'.
My question to the community is, how much do you know about the collaborations between Bateson and Erickson?
I've found bits and pieces, such at the Erickson documentary (dir. Jeff Zeig?) which mentions Milton and Betty's involvement with the Balinese trance dance films (they helped Bateson spot who was really in trance, and who was faking).
Also found a Bateson book in the university library, "Balinese Character", written in 1942 with acknowledgements to Erickson. It goes on to demonstrate Balinese dance instruction methods, using the words Visual, and Kinesthetic.
And then there's the fact Bateson sent Bandler & Grinder to Erickson, leading to the Milton Model. He later criticised it as 'shoddy epistemology'. My interpretation of that comment is that it was an incomplete model (language patterns only), and didn't sufficiently describe what Erickson did.
So, I'll open it to the floor. Any other opinions, information sources, etc. would be very much appreciated.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Gary Lintern on -
Fair comment. All I know is that Steve Gilligan offers incredible value for money - especially the CD sets, at $375 for a two-week course. And to top that, he's a great teacher, and all-round good guy.
And my summer at NLPU (Dilts & DeLozier) was one of the best experiences of my life.
(and this is not a sponsored message!)
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Permalink Reply by Gary Lintern on
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My fellow Bateson enthusiast, Caitlin Walker, gave me a good tip. 'Uncommon Wisdom' by Fritjof Capra has an easy-to-understand chapter on his work, which acted as a skeleton key for me.
Bateson eschews logic, which, he says, is unfortunate, because the English language is based on logic. So, I found the best way was to keep reading, and let it wash through me. And, under no circumstances, attempt to fixate, or apply logic to it :-)
When you apply logic to the world, it's full of paradox. Bateson talks about how logic makes things oscillate, eg, Q. "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?". A "The chicken, no, the egg, no, the chicken . . . ".
When you forget about logic, both can be true at the same time, or you can forget about concepts like 'truth' and just accept what's there.
In my experience, this is the 'logic' of trance (such a pleasant place to be!)
The metaphors are all-important, as are patterns and connections.
For instance, Bateson explains his systemic theory of memory by telling a story about his friend's ageing mother, who kept forgetting where she'd left her knitting.
She solved the problem by leaving a piece of knitting in every room of the house.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on -
OK I am off to the library tomorrow to find that. In the meantime, I have dusted off Steps to the ecology of the mind and I;ll get throught it this week.
Hugh Cole
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Permalink Reply by Rick Collingwood on -
I flew back to London yesterday after a week back in Aus and read an excellent book called Brainwash by Dominic Streatfeild on the long boring flight, it is about brainwashing techniques which not surprisingly has a lot of info about hypnosis techniques the CIA and MI5 dabbled with in the 60s and 70s.
The book also talks a lot about sodium pentathol and LSD etc and mentions Gregory Bateson on page 97 quote from the book; "In the meantime, of course, the CIA were still sending the drug into its universities and hospitals for testing, where their subjects suddenly became less random. Friends of friends who had heard about, or tried LSD, showed up and offered to have a go. In 1959 Harold Abramson gave LSD to the anthropologist Gregory Bateson, who encouraged Allan Ginsberg to take part in an LSD experiment at the Mental Research Unit in Palo Alto, California. Ginsberg became paranoid, convinced that he was about to be "absorbed into the electrical grid of the entire nation" but passed on the word of the drug afterwards." End Quote. Seems Bateson had expanded his mind in more ways than one.
Gary I agree with you 1000% re Steve Gilligan, but here is a man who spent real time with and obviously learned a lot from Erickson, and not just someone proffering what they think Erickson might have meant after they have completed some other slf proclaimed NLP experts training.
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Permalink Reply by Gary Lintern on
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Fascinating! Thanks for your insight, Rick. (Got to get that book).
Makes sense, as psychedelics (like many trance states) seem to lead to aesthetic / systemic experiences.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on
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You know, that brings up a great idea for the site.,,, A bookshelf or book review app like facebook has. I have several books on brain washing .... But I have never read Streatfeild. Thanks for the recomendation. This group is sending me back into my library for more quiet reading time... Thanks for that.
Hugh Cole
Texas Tranceman
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