The Devastating Truth About the Obama Plan for Alternative Medicine Practitioners

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by John Maclean on February 3, 2010 at 8:12am

While I benefit from the NHS in UK, and believe me I have (extended health care for cancer) and truly believe in the right to health care for all, my son is married to an American and lives in Connecticut. Their jobs do not offer full health insurance and they struggle to pay private insurance. It costs a fortune for them to even see a doctor or dentist so please don't tell me that free health care is available to all. Let's be honest. Most of this is scare-mongering by the Republican right who hate Obama with a passion. I have even been told that by providing free health care the US will become a socialist state!! Come on guys. Time to leave the McCarthy era behind and join the World!!

P.S. You don't ACTUALLY believe Sarah Palin about "Death panels", do you?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Roy Hunter on February 3, 2010 at 8:30am

I believe it would be the better part of wisdom to debate the issue of health care rather than allowing this to digress into a political debate and/or accusations against either the right or the left.

Roy Hunter

John Maclean said:

While I benefit from the NHS in UK, and believe me I have (extended health care for cancer) and truly believe in the right to health care for all, my son is married to an American and lives in Connecticut. Their jobs do not offer full health insurance and they struggle to pay private insurance. It costs a fortune for them to even see a doctor or dentist so please don't tell me that free health care is available to all. Let's be honest. Most of this is scare-mongering by the Republican right who hate Obama with a passion. I have even been told that by providing free health care the US will become a socialist state!! Come on guys. Time to leave the McCarthy era behind and join the World!!

P.S. You don't ACTUALLY believe Sarah Palin about "Death panels", do you?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John Maclean on February 3, 2010 at 8:59am

Thank you Ian!
How can this not be a political debate/issue when the OP started the discussion with a reference to a political bill? On another note; surely this is exactly what this is, a disagreement between Republicans and Democrats? Therefore it is political by definition. I have followed the debate with interest, not only because my son is a "New" American but because I also have many friends involved in health care in the US. I think that some people do not realise how the rest of the world views the US reaction to proposed health insurance/reforms. I do not regard myself as either a Socialist nor a Communist but have been accused of both by those who oppose "social health care". What are you so scared of?

I have always agreed with Roy about respect and politness on the forum, and will continue to do so. I don't believe I have insulted anyone or called anyone names. You may be right Roy. Maybe this is not the place for political debate in which case the thread should be removed.

Ian Jay said:

Roy

The discussion is about this:
http://drtenpenny.com/TruthAbouttheObamaHealthPlan.aspx

Apolitical? I don't think so!

Furthermore, in reply to the article, John's comments were valid, and it is not worthy for anyone to try to gag him or anyone else. Regardless of their political views.

Ian

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kathleen Hanover on February 3, 2010 at 9:02am

Hi John,

Congratulations, you get my last comment on this thread.

I posted a link to an article posted on a respected blog about alternative medicine practitioners and government healthcare. The Devastating Truth About the Obama Plan. Interestingly, none of the people who are attacking my position in this thread seem to have read the article.

It's a shame Connecticut has priced your son out of the insurance market. Insurance premiums differ widely because of mandated coverages set by the States. Republicans in Congress want to open up the insurance market to allow people to buy insurance across state lines.

In Ohio, my premium is $161 a month ($3,000 deductible/$5 million max coverage). Until last month, it was $138 a month. Then the State mandated coverage for hair replacement surgery for people with alopecia. So from now on I'll be paying an extra $300+ a year so that a handful of Ohioans don't have to wear hats. That seems rather selfish and non-compassionate on the part of these people.

Competition, a free market and personal responsibility are the cure for whatever ails health care and health insurance in the U.S. That's what got us the best system in the world.

And for the record, I don't hate Obama. I don't even know the man. I do, however, hate communism, socialism and collectivism as political and economic systems, as they are anti-individual, anti-freedom and can only be accomplished by the use of deadly force. And the more authoritarian the government, the more likely it is to commit mass murder of its citizens. So yes, this debate is, for me, part of a much larger debate, and it is a life-and-death debate indeed.

As a libertarian, I believe the initiation of the use of force is immoral. I don't believe the end justifies the means.

Free emergency health care is available to all. That's federal law, whether you believe it or not.

And here's an excerpt of a discussion about "death panels," which you will likely not read, since you don't appear to have read the original article I linked to, but perhaps others may find interesting.

These critics, however, didn't take the time to find out to what Palin was referring when she used the term "level of productivity in society" as being the basis for determining access to medical care. If the critics, who hold themselves in the highest of intellectual esteem, had bothered to do something other than react, they would have realized that the approach to health care to which Palin was referring was none other than that espoused by key Obama health care adviser Dr. Ezekial Emanuel (brother of Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel).

I'm not going to close the thread, because I think politics is an appropriate topic of discussion when it may affect the ability of clients like me to get the alternative and complementary medical care we want and need. It surprises me that more hypnotherapists do not see the danger in allowing unelected bureaucrats to control their livelihoods.

Yes, John, I do disagree with you, and others who support socialism and socialized medicine, but I don't hate you for it, and I don't feel the need to insult you or question your motives. We just disagree.

Have a nice day,
Kathleen

Kathleen Hanover
"The Pretty Goodest Public Relations, 
Copywriting & Marketing Lady on the Planet"



John Maclean said:

While I benefit from the NHS in UK, and believe me I have (extended health care for cancer) and truly believe in the right to health care for all, my son is married to an American and lives in Connecticut. Their jobs do not offer full health insurance and they struggle to pay private insurance. It costs a fortune for them to even see a doctor or dentist so please don't tell me that free health care is available to all. Let's be honest. Most of this is scare-mongering by the Republican right who hate Obama with a passion. I have even been told that by providing free health care the US will become a socialist state!! Come on guys. Time to leave the McCarthy era behind and join the World!!
P.S. You don't ACTUALLY believe Sarah Palin about "Death panels", do you?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John Maclean on February 3, 2010 at 10:13am

Thank you Kathleen. I am honoured!!

Kathleen Hanover said:

Hi John,
Congratulations, you get my last comment on this thread. I posted a link to an article posted on a respected blog about alternative medicine practitioners and government healthcare. The Devastating Truth About the Obama Plan. Interestingly, none of the people who are attacking my position in this thread seem to have read the article.
I did read the article. It's laughable. My God it even doubts climate change!

It's a shame Connecticut has priced your son out of the insurance market. Insurance premiums differ widely because of mandated coverages set by the States. Republicans in Congress want to open up the insurance market to allow people to buy insurance across state lines.

It is the system that prices them out of Health Care, not the State!

In Ohio, my premium is $161 a month ($3,000 deductible/$5 million max coverage). Until last month, it was $138 a month. Then the State mandated coverage for hair replacement surgery for people with alopecia. So from now on I'll be paying an extra $300+ a year so that a handful of Ohioans don't have to wear hats. That seems rather selfish and non-compassionate on the part of these people.

Or on your part.

Competition, a free market and personal responsibility are the cure for whatever ails health care and health insurance in the U.S. That's what got us the best system in the world.

You actually have one of the WORST healthcare system in the world with a very low ranking for Adult Mortality, lower life expectancy at birth. You are more likely to die young. Your babies are more likely to die. You are more obese and Your teenagers are more likely to get pregnant.

And for the record, I don't hate Obama. I don't even know the man. I do, however, hate communism, socialism and collectivism as political and economic systems, as they are anti-individual, anti-freedom and can only be accomplished by the use of deadly force. And the more authoritarian the government,the more likely it is to commit mass murder of its citizens. So yes, this debate is, for me, part of a much larger debate, and it is a life-and-death debate indeed.

Tell that to an Iraqui or Afghan. Why do you equate access to healthcare with tyranny? Do you think the UK is a "Socialist" or "Communist" state because we have "Social Health Care?" I think you are confusing "social" with "Socialist" I think the Liberal Democracy has used deadly force far more than any country in the world in recent years.

As a libertarian, I believe the initiation of the use of force is immoral. I don't believe the end justifies the means.
See above and recent US history!

Free emergency health care is available to all. That's federal law, whether you believe it or not.

Another red herring. I was not referring to emergency care but rather "normal" health care. I have had long term care for cancer in two European countries and have not paid anything (other than my taxes).

And here's an excerpt of a discussion about "death panels," which you will likely not read, since you don't appear to have read the original article I linked to, but perhaps others may find interesting.

Once again, please do not make assumptions. I did read the article as I have read much about the bills in both houses. The FACT is Palin made it up. Conservative columnist David Brooks and Rep. Jack Kingston (R-GA) have also refuted Palin.

These critics, however, didn't take the time to find out to what Palin was referring when she used the term "level of productivity in society" as being the basis for determining access to medical care. If the critics, who hold themselves in the highest of intellectual esteem, had bothered to do something other than react, they would have realized that the approach to health care to which Palin was referring was none other than that espoused by key Obama health care adviser Dr. Ezekial Emanuel (brother of Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel).

Emanuel is no "Dr. Death," though he has published a lot on end-of-life issues. He is an opponent of legalizing euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide.

In recent weeks, Emanuel has been accused -- falsely -- of advocating those so-called death panels you may have been hearing about in the swelling coverage of raucous town hall meetings and debate over President Obama's health care overhaul measures pending in Congress.

"Certainly on the death panels one, there is no way you could get that out of my writings at all. It is not just a misinterpretation. That's a fabrication," Emanuel said.

I'm not going to close the thread, because I think politics is an appropriate topic of discussion when it may affect the ability of clients like me to get the alternative and complementary medical care we want and need. It surprises me that more hypnotherapists do not see the danger in allowing unelected bureaucrats to control their livelihoods.

Well we Hypnotherapists in UK and Spain seem to do very well!

Yes, John, I do disagree with you, and others who support socialism and socialized medicine, but I don't hate you for it, and I don't feel the need to insult you or question your motives. We just disagree.

Where did I ever say I was Socialist or supported Socialism or Communism? Just for the record, I am not and don't. It is this inherent fear that makes us in Europe gaze in wonder at the country accross the pond. There is nothing to fear but fear itself!

I hope you too have a nice day. I've had my say and accept that some or all will disagree.
Have a nice day,
Kathleen

Kathleen Hanover
"The Pretty Goodest Public Relations, 
Copywriting & Marketing Lady on the Planet"



John Maclean said:

While I benefit from the NHS in UK, and believe me I have (extended health care for cancer) and truly believe in the right to health care for all, my son is married to an American and lives in Connecticut. Their jobs do not offer full health insurance and they struggle to pay private insurance. It costs a fortune for them to even see a doctor or dentist so please don't tell me that free health care is available to all. Let's be honest. Most of this is scare-mongering by the Republican right who hate Obama with a passion. I have even been told that by providing free health care the US will become a socialist state!! Come on guys. Time to leave the McCarthy era behind and join the World!!
P.S. You don't ACTUALLY believe Sarah Palin about "Death panels", do you?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Roy Hunter on February 3, 2010 at 5:34pm

Hi Kathleen,

Well, I DID read the article on the link you provided. And since several seem to believe healthcare is related to politics, then I'll add another comment and get political since it seems on topic in this thread.

What mainstream media overlooks is the fact that Republicans in Congress have made numerous suggestions regarding health care since the democrats took over both chambers of Congress in 2006. However, republican suggestions fell on deaf ears (such as removing state boundaries for selling health insurance policies, which would quickly cause a reduction of premiums because of competition).

Obama made at least eight public promises of "transparency" in negotiating health care, stating that C-Span would be invited in, as well as health care professionals and both political parties. FACT: The democrats worked out deals behind closed doors, locking out both the media and the Republicans. This is bipartisan? This is transparency? What about the broken promises?

RESULTS of closed door meetings: Our tax dollars were used to bribe Senators into voting FOR (rather than against) a bill of over 2500 pages that many of them failed to even read! Over $300 Billion dollars of ours were used to buy a vote from the Senator from Nebraska. Other senators got special treatment for their states at the expense of the rest of us. Then when the Unions complained, they also were promised special monetary favors to buy their support. HOW CAN THIS BE CONSIDERED ETHICAL AND HONEST?

Actions speak louder than words; and the actions of those in power do NOT match their words. To some public officials, bipartisan means "you see it my way" rather than sitting down with open communication and compromise. Many in Congress (both political parties) seem more interested in their own elections than in what is best for our country. I don't trust either political party; but there is no way I want to see my beloved country become a 21st Century USSR.

Also, many months ago when the question about so-called death panels first came up, I read one of the government links and did not like what was posted there. My wife has MS, and takes very expensive prescriptions. She is rightfully scared that some government official might someday determine that since she is disabled, taxpayer money could be better spent on someone who is younger. If you dislike Sarah Palin, you have that right...but avoid the mistake of discarding everything she says. I happen to believe that she had a reason to warn us about death panels.

Before anyone responds to this post out of emotion, consider that the media does not tell the full truth. They only tell us what they want us to know, and/or whatever they believe will increase ratings. For example, Sarah Palin never said she could see Russia from her home...that was a spoof on Saturday Night Live that was falsely attributed to her. And if you think Fox News is full of lies, then perhaps you might consider reading: www.drudgereport.com once in a while. You will get news on both sides of the health care issues.

On a personal note, I truly hope that my fears of the current administration are wrong. However, I live in a virtual one-party state (Washington), and ever since one party took over a supermajority of the state legislature, they've increased taxes horribly while spending whatever they want on themselves. The result is that Washington is not nearly as friendly to business as it once was, and spending has gone out of control.

We need checks and balances at both state and federal levels. Perhaps with a democrat president we would be better served with a republican Congress...and vice versa.

Bottom line with health care: Congress needs to scrap the current bills with all the pork and earmarks, and start over with BIPARTISAN cooperation from both political parties. These are my opinions, and I live in a land where I am still entitled to them.

Roy Hunter

Kathleen Hanover said:

Hi John,
Congratulations, you get my last comment on this thread.
I posted a link to an article posted on a respected blog about alternative medicine practitioners and government healthcare. The Devastating Truth About the Obama Plan. Interestingly, none of the people who are attacking my position in this thread seem to have read the article.

It's a shame Connecticut has priced your son out of the insurance market. Insurance premiums differ widely because of mandated coverages set by the States. Republicans in Congress want to open up the insurance market to allow people to buy insurance across state lines.

In Ohio, my premium is $161 a month ($3,000 deductible/$5 million max coverage). Until last month, it was $138 a month. Then the State mandated coverage for hair replacement surgery for people with alopecia. So from now on I'll be paying an extra $300+ a year so that a handful of Ohioans don't have to wear hats. That seems rather selfish and non-compassionate on the part of these people.

Competition, a free market and personal responsibility are the cure for whatever ails health care and health insurance in the U.S. That's what got us the best system in the world.

And for the record, I don't hate Obama. I don't even know the man. I do, however, hate communism, socialism and collectivism as political and economic systems, as they are anti-individual, anti-freedom and can only be accomplished by the use of deadly force. And the more authoritarian the government, the more likely it is to commit mass murder of its citizens. So yes, this debate is, for me, part of a much larger debate, and it is a life-and-death debate indeed.

As a libertarian, I believe the initiation of the use of force is immoral. I don't believe the end justifies the means.

Free emergency health care is available to all. That's federal law, whether you believe it or not.

And here's an excerpt of a discussion about "death panels," which you will likely not read, since you don't appear to have read the original article I linked to, but perhaps others may find interesting.

These critics, however, didn't take the time to find out to what Palin was referring when she used the term "level of productivity in society" as being the basis for determining access to medical care. If the critics, who hold themselves in the highest of intellectual esteem, had bothered to do something other than react, they would have realized that the approach to health care to which Palin was referring was none other than that espoused by key Obama health care adviser Dr. Ezekial Emanuel (brother of Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel).

I'm not going to close the thread, because I think politics is an appropriate topic of discussion when it may affect the ability of clients like me to get the alternative and complementary medical care we want and need. It surprises me that more hypnotherapists do not see the danger in allowing unelected bureaucrats to control their livelihoods.

Yes, John, I do disagree with you, and others who support socialism and socialized medicine, but I don't hate you for it, and I don't feel the need to insult you or question your motives. We just disagree.

Have a nice day,
Kathleen

Kathleen Hanover
"The Pretty Goodest Public Relations, 
Copywriting & Marketing Lady on the Planet"



John Maclean said:

While I benefit from the NHS in UK, and believe me I have (extended health care for cancer) and truly believe in the right to health care for all, my son is married to an American and lives in Connecticut. Their jobs do not offer full health insurance and they struggle to pay private insurance. It costs a fortune for them to even see a doctor or dentist so please don't tell me that free health care is available to all. Let's be honest. Most of this is scare-mongering by the Republican right who hate Obama with a passion. I have even been told that by providing free health care the US will become a socialist state!! Come on guys. Time to leave the McCarthy era behind and join the World!!
P.S. You don't ACTUALLY believe Sarah Palin about "Death panels", do you?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John Maclean on February 4, 2010 at 2:41am

Well I still fail to see how you get the leap from social health care to 21st century Communist State? Looking after your poor, sick and elderly makes you a Communist? Come on! I am quite sure that many things need to be debated and sorted out regarding the Health Care bills but this scaremongering is ridiculous. You have been to Europe Roy which by the way makes you one of the few Americans with a passport! Did we seem oppressed to you? Is our freedom of speech curtailed? Our police aren't even armed for goodness sake! And WE have social health care! By all means disagree with the policies on economic or health grounds but please...Communist State!! LOL!

Also, while Tina Fey parodied Ms Palin and reduced her statement to a one-liner, she did actually give this as a reason for her foriegn policy expertise http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXL86v8NoGk

Definitely my last word on this. There is an old saying ."Amongst friends never discuss religion or politics" and I now think this is the wrong place for this discussion. Apologies to all for keeping this thread going.


Roy Hunter said:

Hi Kathleen,

Well, I DID read the article on the link you provided. And since several seem to believe healthcare is related to politics, then I'll add another comment and get political since it seems on topic in this thread.

What mainstream media overlooks is the fact that Republicans in Congress have made numerous suggestions regarding health care since the democrats took over both chambers of Congress in 2006. However, republican suggestions fell on deaf ears (such as removing state boundaries for selling health insurance policies, which would quickly cause a reduction of premiums because of competition).

Obama made at least eight public promises of "transparency" in negotiating health care, stating that C-Span would be invited in, as well as health care professionals and both political parties. FACT: The democrats worked out deals behind closed doors, locking out both the media and the Republicans. This is bipartisan? This is transparency? What about the broken promises?

RESULTS of closed door meetings: Our tax dollars were used to bribe Senators into voting FOR (rather than against) a bill of over 2500 pages that many of them failed to even read! Over $300 Billion dollars of ours were used to buy a vote from the Senator from Nebraska. Other senators got special treatment for their states at the expense of the rest of us. Then when the Unions complained, they also were promised special monetary favors to buy their support. HOW CAN THIS BE CONSIDERED ETHICAL AND HONEST?

Actions speak louder than words; and the actions of those in power do NOT match their words. To some public officials, bipartisan means "you see it my way" rather than sitting down with open communication and compromise. Many in Congress (both political parties) seem more interested in their own elections than in what is best for our country. I don't trust either political party; but there is no way I want to see my beloved country become a 21st Century USSR.

Also, many months ago when the question about so-called death panels first came up, I read one of the government links and did not like what was posted there. My wife has MS, and takes very expensive prescriptions. She is rightfully scared that some government official might someday determine that since she is disabled, taxpayer money could be better spent on someone who is younger. If you dislike Sarah Palin, you have that right...but avoid the mistake of discarding everything she says. I happen to believe that she had a reason to warn us about death panels.

Before anyone responds to this post out of emotion, consider that the media does not tell the full truth. They only tell us what they want us to know, and/or whatever they believe will increase ratings. For example, Sarah Palin never said she could see Russia from her home...that was a spoof on Saturday Night Live that was falsely attributed to her. And if you think Fox News is full of lies, then perhaps you might consider reading: www.drudgereport.com once in a while. You will get news on both sides of the health care issues.

On a personal note, I truly hope that my fears of the current administration are wrong. However, I live in a virtual one-party state (Washington), and ever since one party took over a supermajority of the state legislature, they've increased taxes horribly while spending whatever they want on themselves. The result is that Washington is not nearly as friendly to business as it once was, and spending has gone out of control.

We need checks and balances at both state and federal levels. Perhaps with a democrat president we would be better served with a republican Congress...and vice versa.

Bottom line with health care: Congress needs to scrap the current bills with all the pork and earmarks, and start over with BIPARTISAN cooperation from both political parties. These are my opinions, and I live in a land where I am still entitled to them.

Roy Hunter

Kathleen Hanover said:

Hi John,
Congratulations, you get my last comment on this thread.
I posted a link to an article posted on a respected blog about alternative medicine practitioners and government healthcare. The Devastating Truth About the Obama Plan. Interestingly, none of the people who are attacking my position in this thread seem to have read the article.

It's a shame Connecticut has priced your son out of the insurance market. Insurance premiums differ widely because of mandated coverages set by the States. Republicans in Congress want to open up the insurance market to allow people to buy insurance across state lines.

In Ohio, my premium is $161 a month ($3,000 deductible/$5 million max coverage). Until last month, it was $138 a month. Then the State mandated coverage for hair replacement surgery for people with alopecia. So from now on I'll be paying an extra $300+ a year so that a handful of Ohioans don't have to wear hats. That seems rather selfish and non-compassionate on the part of these people.

Competition, a free market and personal responsibility are the cure for whatever ails health care and health insurance in the U.S. That's what got us the best system in the world.

And for the record, I don't hate Obama. I don't even know the man. I do, however, hate communism, socialism and collectivism as political and economic systems, as they are anti-individual, anti-freedom and can only be accomplished by the use of deadly force. And the more authoritarian the government, the more likely it is to commit mass murder of its citizens. So yes, this debate is, for me, part of a much larger debate, and it is a life-and-death debate indeed.

As a libertarian, I believe the initiation of the use of force is immoral. I don't believe the end justifies the means.

Free emergency health care is available to all. That's federal law, whether you believe it or not.

And here's an excerpt of a discussion about "death panels," which you will likely not read, since you don't appear to have read the original article I linked to, but perhaps others may find interesting.

These critics, however, didn't take the time to find out to what Palin was referring when she used the term "level of productivity in society" as being the basis for determining access to medical care. If the critics, who hold themselves in the highest of intellectual esteem, had bothered to do something other than react, they would have realized that the approach to health care to which Palin was referring was none other than that espoused by key Obama health care adviser Dr. Ezekial Emanuel (brother of Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel).

I'm not going to close the thread, because I think politics is an appropriate topic of discussion when it may affect the ability of clients like me to get the alternative and complementary medical care we want and need. It surprises me that more hypnotherapists do not see the danger in allowing unelected bureaucrats to control their livelihoods.

Yes, John, I do disagree with you, and others who support socialism and socialized medicine, but I don't hate you for it, and I don't feel the need to insult you or question your motives. We just disagree.

Have a nice day,
Kathleen

Kathleen Hanover
"The Pretty Goodest Public Relations, 
Copywriting & Marketing Lady on the Planet"



John Maclean said:

While I benefit from the NHS in UK, and believe me I have (extended health care for cancer) and truly believe in the right to health care for all, my son is married to an American and lives in Connecticut. Their jobs do not offer full health insurance and they struggle to pay private insurance. It costs a fortune for them to even see a doctor or dentist so please don't tell me that free health care is available to all. Let's be honest. Most of this is scare-mongering by the Republican right who hate Obama with a passion. I have even been told that by providing free health care the US will become a socialist state!! Come on guys. Time to leave the McCarthy era behind and join the World!!
P.S. You don't ACTUALLY believe Sarah Palin about "Death panels", do you?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rick Collingwood on February 5, 2010 at 2:25pm

From what I can gather during my last 3 visits since Nov 09, Obama should be more worried about the health and popularity of his party and the party keeping its power, than worring about the national health care system. I don't think his stance on this has helped him one bit.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Susan French on February 27, 2010 at 2:14pm

I'll say this only and let it go:

"We have the greatest medical care in the world...if you can afford it"

If you can't, they'd better make room for those who can't to be dropped off by a taxi cab at 5th and Main (in LA, that's skid row) in a hospital gown with your butt hanging out.

Talk about Death Panels. We have Death Panels now. They're called being un-insured and worse, under-insured, and worse having a pre-existing condition so that we're no longer "cost effective," or worse, losing one's job with unemployment at 10% (coming from who's watch?), and losing insurance with it.

I know quite a few people who are quite mainstream, middle-class, property-owning, tax-paying American citizens who fall into these categories. I wonder what the stats would be if we each polled our community to see how many others fall into this Death Panel category.

I don't see any people from countries that have universal health care running to our country for medical care...unless they're Saudi Arabian or wealthy from some other source.

People: wake up. When I went to college I was taught that rule by corporations is called fascism.

We demand that drivers be insured and we make sure the insurance is regulated so it remains affordable. But not human bodies?????

Let 'em eat cake...and moldy cheese.

BTW: since when does our present health care system pay for hypnosis or any other alternative medicine...or, God forbid, preventative medicine.

In the immortal words of Winston Churchill: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965)


tsk....

Susan

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Susan French on March 1, 2010 at 6:12am

Now that I'm not so frustrated and irritated, I'd like to suggest one more thing to really investigate before decisions are made on either side.

Follow the money. Since the statistics say that there are 8 lobbyists to each congressperson on each side of the aisle and it is well-known that it is almost impossible to get elected or re-elected without a toilet-ful of money, I would really like to see some posted transparency on who is getting how much from whom and towards influence in voting for what "corporate" entitlement.

The way it seems to this old(ish) woman, is that if you leave anything up to any institutions that makes money from an action, there will be abuses, as this is human nature.

Otherwise we wouldn't need laws, regulations, courts, jails or traffic lights. The discussion about whether it should be the left to government, consumers, investors or corporate institutions seems almost ridiculous at it's very base.

My take: follow the money, if you can find it, and you'll find out a whole bunch of unpleasant and uncomfortable things about everybody including oneself..

Susan

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