the Free Hypnosis Social Network
the Hypnotist Jonathan Chase asks - Erickson, what is all the fuss about?
I've watched every video in existence of Erickson working and in all but one of them I don't see anything except an average hypnotist. In one he fails totally.
His style of therapy seems elegant to the casual observer but when you know suggestion and what works it looks, and is, cumbersome and erratic.
He success rate was higher than his peers, who were all on page 3 when he was on page 6, but in most cases took months and even years to achieve.
The guy was obviously very intelligent, dedicated and 'nice', except to stage hypnotists who he hated with a passion which to me always shows a complete lack of common sense. And makes me smile as most of his techniques are taken from a lot of the stage performers who pre-date him and put into the clinical setting which always impresses the student.
I fail to see how he has become celebrated, nay, worshiped, as the man who changed hypnosis. He did but not for the better. He added psychotherapy which, over time has watered hypnosis down from the rapid magical thing it was to what I call relaxatherapy.
And before anyone asks yes, I've read the complete works and all the books, but wouldn't recommend either to someone who wants to change lives. And I have no doubt on ocasion he got the odd miracle. Even the most innept prctitioner of the art will accidentally get hypnosis now and then and that's when the thing works.
To discuss? Without the overstated hearsay and hero adulation from his handful of compatriots, is there a single thing Erickson did that can not be achieved with simple, rapid, direct suggestion?
His style of therapy seems elegant to the casual observer but when you know suggestion and what works it looks, and is, cumbersome and erratic.
He success rate was higher than his peers, who were all on page 3 when he was on page 6, but in most cases took months and even years to achieve.
The guy was obviously very intelligent, dedicated and 'nice', except to stage hypnotists who he hated with a passion which to me always shows a complete lack of common sense. And makes me smile as most of his techniques are taken from a lot of the stage performers who pre-date him and put into the clinical setting which always impresses the student.
I fail to see how he has become celebrated, nay, worshiped, as the man who changed hypnosis. He did but not for the better. He added psychotherapy which, over time has watered hypnosis down from the rapid magical thing it was to what I call relaxatherapy.
And before anyone asks yes, I've read the complete works and all the books, but wouldn't recommend either to someone who wants to change lives. And I have no doubt on ocasion he got the odd miracle. Even the most innept prctitioner of the art will accidentally get hypnosis now and then and that's when the thing works.
To discuss? Without the overstated hearsay and hero adulation from his handful of compatriots, is there a single thing Erickson did that can not be achieved with simple, rapid, direct suggestion?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on -
I am teaching real hypnosis this weekend and will look forward to joining the conversation next week.
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Permalink Reply by Donna Carter on -
Eee ghaads...
How am I supposed to get all talkative when you only ask for one thing?
Fine.
Here's one:
Rapport.
~D.
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Permalink Reply by Henxy on -
When's that ever stopped you?! ;-P
A woman's prerogative, as well as changing her mind, is to talk as much as she wants in answer to a question that hasn't been asked!
Donna Rodolph said:Eee ghaads...
How am I supposed to get all talkative when you only ask for one thing?
Fine.
Here's one:
Rapport.
~D.
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on
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I have to agree Henxy,
But saying that is just the prerogative of the female is, in my not very humble opinion, sexist.
Donna by all means get as chatty as you like.
Rapport? Did Erickson invent that? Oh my. I wonder how people made relationships before him?
Noo sorry.Hypnotists have always been adept at building rapport. Certainly Messmer used it nearly 200 years before Erickson and there's no doubt at all the snake oil salesmen and shaman have been using it pre-dating even that.
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Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on -
That was perhaps the single MOST ludicrous statement (or rather, a collection of absurd statements) I've ever had the (dis)pleasure to hear since I've been involved in hypnosis (1979).
In fact, what you said was SO patently outrageous I actually thought you were JOKING at first!!
I must stop now, because it is absolutely impossible for me to write another word regarding what you said without becoming SO personally insulting that I'll get in trouble with the moderators.
It's really too bad that I won't be able to watch you teach "real hypnosis" this weekend- I would have LOVED to confront you in person in front of your students...; - )
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
P.S. I can't begin to tell you how deliciously IRONIC it was to see your other posting about "arrogance" in which you offer the following statement:
"A confident man tells you how good He is. An arrogant man tells you how bad everyone else is."
Could it be that you actually don't realize HOW hysterically funny that is after your comments about Erickson...?!
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Permalink Reply by Donna Carter on
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Jonathan,
What?
err...
um...
What?
Your very own posting has left you confused to the question?
Pahh..llease...
direct me to where you say anything about him inventing anything?
Let me...direct you to your original question:
(talk slowly if you must) ~grin.
"Is there a single thing Erickson did that can not be achieved with simple, rapid, direct suggestion?"
I still stand by my original one word answer.
And, I love his book Developing Ericksonian Therapy - I would recommend that you do recommend it.
Also, to say that someone is lacking common sense because they don't know what they don't know...is lacking common sense. His focus was on something else, he didn't walk in a stage hypnotists shoes and therefor was living life from his own paradigm. To each their own. But to say that someone is lacking common sense because they dislike something, and many times people dislike something because they don't walk that walk -right(?), is to say that he doesn't know what he doesn't know...and that would apply to all of us. right? So, in this scenerio it would indicate that you are saying everyone lacks common sense.(some people more than others...but who gets to choose?) I suppose under these guidelines, it may be the first time I would agree with you this year. Or...am I agreeing with me?
My best,
~D.
Jonathan Chase said:I have to agree Henxy,
Rapport? Did Erickson invent that? Oh my. I wonder how people made relationships before him?
Noo sorry.Hypnotists have always been adept at building rapport. Certainly Messmer used it nearly 200 years before Erickson and there's no doubt at all the snake oil salesmen and shaman have been using it pre-dating even that.
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Permalink Reply by Cheryl Westley on -
If what Erickson did was so mediocre or mundane.... where did his notoriety come from??
I, for one, believe this argument borders on religious denominationalism.
I'm new to Hypnotism... but I'm finding out that a great many hypnotists argue just like other religious fundamentalists. :(
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Permalink Reply by Donna Carter on
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Izzy,
I see you are good with suggestion.
Bravo.
~D.
Izzy Dunne said:Jon,
Now you have done it mate. You have stirred up the cult of hypnotherapy (yes, hypnotherapy is a cult), by daring to say that their god, MIlton Erickson, is an emperor with few clothes. Now there will be much wailing, keening, and gnashing of teeth as they descend upon this post looking for revenge.
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Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on
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Hypnotherapy is a..."CULT"...?!
I'm starting to become seriously worried that Al Qaeda might be tampering with the water supply; or perhaps aliens (not the "illegal" kind- the "outer space" kind) have started bombarding the earth with some kind of nefarious "confusion" rays that are making people utter absurdly idiotic gobbledygook today!
The only other alternative (that they're saying these things of their own free will) is almost too terrible to contemplate...
LOL
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
P.S. I'm going "off-line" now for a few hours- my daily "B.S." quota has been exceeded in just the last 1/2 hour, and I'm going to take a 2 hour hike in the woods to recharge (and hopefully recuperate?).
JEEZ!!
Izzy Dunne said:Jon,
Now you have done it mate. You have stirred up the cult of hypnotherapy (yes, hypnotherapy is a cult), by daring to say that their god, MIlton Erickson, is an emperor with few clothes. Now there will be much wailing, keening, and gnashing of teeth as they descend upon this post looking for revenge.
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Permalink Reply by Cheryl Westley on
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Donna, If you're referring to me, my comment comes from my own personal history and experience with religious fanatics. "Denominationalism" and I go waaay back. I've been thinking on this for a few days, actually... not just NOW... because of some adept suggestion.
Donna Rodolph said:Izzy,
I see you are good with suggestion. Bravo. ~D.
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Permalink Reply by Graham Old on -
Hmmm...
Jon, didn't you just recently state, '"An arrogant man tells you how bad everyone else is."'?
I've seen you slating Erickson a number of times and I really don't understand why. Who would you posit as better than Erickson? I can't think of anyone and I've seen countless videos of you, Elman, Boyne, Banyan, Jacquin, Smart... etc.
Perhaps the difference - and I can't believe you're missing this - is that Erickson would work with people that some 'direct' hypnotists would turn away.
You know, introduce me to one hypnotist who's helped one person quit smoking and I'll gladly put that person on a pedastal. I don't care if that's you or Erickson or Eastabrooks or Royle. It's an incredible thing to change someone's life. Erickson, who influenced Strategic Therapy, Brief Therapy, Hypnotherapy, NLP and Family Therapy changed countless lives. How about you give him some respect for that?
I know it would take a lot of pride-swallowing on your behalf to answer that question, but I know you've got it in you.
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Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on
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Izzy,
Nice try at dissembling bro, but no "takesie backsies".
You not only wrote "cult of hypnotherapy", but even added "(yes, hypnotherapy is a cult)" directly afterwards!
Then again, compared to what J.C. (no, not THAT J.C.- the other, possibly even MORE famous in his own mind, J.C.!) said about Erickson- YOUR...bizarre...statement was actually pretty mild by comparison...
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Izzy Dunne said:"You are good with suggestion."
Yes, I am. When you read my post and saw "cult of hypnotherapy', when it actually says "acolytes of hypnotherapy", this is an example of hypnotic phenomeon ;)
ID
Donna Rodolph said:Izzy,
I see you are good with suggestion.
Bravo. ~D.
Izzy Dunne said:Jon,
Now you have done it mate. You have stirred up the cult of hypnotherapy (yes, hypnotherapy is a cult), by daring to say that their god, MIlton Erickson, is an emperor with few clothes. Now there will be much wailing, keening, and gnashing of teeth as they descend upon this post looking for revenge.
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