the Free Hypnosis Social Network
the Hypnotist Jonathan Chase asks - Erickson, what is all the fuss about?
I've watched every video in existence of Erickson working and in all but one of them I don't see anything except an average hypnotist. In one he fails totally.
His style of therapy seems elegant to the casual observer but when you know suggestion and what works it looks, and is, cumbersome and erratic.
He success rate was higher than his peers, who were all on page 3 when he was on page 6, but in most cases took months and even years to achieve.
The guy was obviously very intelligent, dedicated and 'nice', except to stage hypnotists who he hated with a passion which to me always shows a complete lack of common sense. And makes me smile as most of his techniques are taken from a lot of the stage performers who pre-date him and put into the clinical setting which always impresses the student.
I fail to see how he has become celebrated, nay, worshiped, as the man who changed hypnosis. He did but not for the better. He added psychotherapy which, over time has watered hypnosis down from the rapid magical thing it was to what I call relaxatherapy.
And before anyone asks yes, I've read the complete works and all the books, but wouldn't recommend either to someone who wants to change lives. And I have no doubt on ocasion he got the odd miracle. Even the most innept prctitioner of the art will accidentally get hypnosis now and then and that's when the thing works.
To discuss? Without the overstated hearsay and hero adulation from his handful of compatriots, is there a single thing Erickson did that can not be achieved with simple, rapid, direct suggestion?
His style of therapy seems elegant to the casual observer but when you know suggestion and what works it looks, and is, cumbersome and erratic.
He success rate was higher than his peers, who were all on page 3 when he was on page 6, but in most cases took months and even years to achieve.
The guy was obviously very intelligent, dedicated and 'nice', except to stage hypnotists who he hated with a passion which to me always shows a complete lack of common sense. And makes me smile as most of his techniques are taken from a lot of the stage performers who pre-date him and put into the clinical setting which always impresses the student.
I fail to see how he has become celebrated, nay, worshiped, as the man who changed hypnosis. He did but not for the better. He added psychotherapy which, over time has watered hypnosis down from the rapid magical thing it was to what I call relaxatherapy.
And before anyone asks yes, I've read the complete works and all the books, but wouldn't recommend either to someone who wants to change lives. And I have no doubt on ocasion he got the odd miracle. Even the most innept prctitioner of the art will accidentally get hypnosis now and then and that's when the thing works.
To discuss? Without the overstated hearsay and hero adulation from his handful of compatriots, is there a single thing Erickson did that can not be achieved with simple, rapid, direct suggestion?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leshem Yosef on -
Jonathan
Today many hypnotist are very good maybe because of those big names or maybe not
But to be famous have few conditions and unfortunately to be dead is one of them
So as long we are alive who really care?
For me to be unfamous and alive its fine and if some are famous it's also fine
Erickson left his mark and so Dave Elman and more and maybe one day our name will be there
But meantime let's have fun and enjoying the new hypnoage when so many are good
Yosef
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Permalink Reply by Connor Wyatt on -
Haha, I'm sorry then Saul, and I'll make sure I never cut you up on the road!
Conca ; )
Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
"Aggressive" is my middle name...; - )
You should see me in my car when other drivers around me (and especially in front of me) do stupid things!
Now THAT'S "aggressive"...LOL
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Conca said:Well I'm sorry about that if I have misinterpreted you, it just sounded aggressive from where I'm sat.
Conca
Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
Don't take it so personally- I happen to have a warped & twisted sense of humor, and am far too set in my ways
to "mellow out" now, EVEN if I wanted to (HAH!).
Nothing anybody says on here "offends" me either (well, all except for one incident, and that's behind me now).
One of the advantages of a cyber forum is that people can be more open and "edgy" without being too "up close
and personal". Sure, a certain measure of civility and decorum and good manners should be employed, but that
doesn't mean there's no place for some biting sarcastic humor now and then. If everyone realized that, instead of
being too "sensitive" and "uptight", then there would probably be a lot more entertaining and engaging discourse.
At least that's the way I look at it...
As it so happens, I DO respect your views about Obama- I just happen to think that you're 100% WRONG, and I
don't shy away from stating my opinion (nor do I think anyone else should shy away from disagreeing with ME).
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Conca said:I didn't mean to offend you Saul, I just think that people shouldn't slate him for deceiving people. I mean come on, that's what happens in, not just politics, but the world today. I realize my first assumption that he was good for the US was wrong but I do think that he deserves to be in the white house at the minute. He was the better man.
As I said, I'm not trying to offend you Saul but at the minute you seem to be nitpicking a lot of what I'm saying when all I'm doing is expressing my opinion. I know I'm not in the US and my opinion isn't as valid as yours but I am still allowed to express it. I have no problem with you expressing your opinion and I respect your views but it doesn't seem like you are respecting mine. I don't know whether it is because I am not American and I'm also young but I have been very diplomatic and have tried not to cause an argument even though you were being aggressive.
Conca
Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
"Aggressive" is my middle name...; - )
You should see me in my car when other drivers around me (and especially in front of me) do stupid things!
Now THAT'S "aggressive"...LOL
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Conca said:Well I'm sorry about that if I have misinterpreted you, it just sounded aggressive from where I'm sat.
Conca
Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
Don't take it so personally- I happen to have a warped & twisted sense of humor, and am far too set in my ways
to "mellow out" now, EVEN if I wanted to (HAH!).
Nothing anybody says on here "offends" me either (well, all except for one incident, and that's behind me now).
One of the advantages of a cyber forum is that people can be more open and "edgy" without being too "up close
and personal". Sure, a certain measure of civility and decorum and good manners should be employed, but that
doesn't mean there's no place for some biting sarcastic humor now and then. If everyone realized that, instead of
being too "sensitive" and "uptight", then there would probably be a lot more entertaining and engaging discourse.
At least that's the way I look at it...
As it so happens, I DO respect your views about Obama- I just happen to think that you're 100% WRONG, and I
don't shy away from stating my opinion (nor do I think anyone else should shy away from disagreeing with ME).
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Conca said:I didn't mean to offend you Saul, I just think that people shouldn't slate him for deceiving people. I mean come on, that's what happens in, not just politics, but the world today. I realize my first assumption that he was good for the US was wrong but I do think that he deserves to be in the white house at the minute. He was the better man.
As I said, I'm not trying to offend you Saul but at the minute you seem to be nitpicking a lot of what I'm saying when all I'm doing is expressing my opinion. I know I'm not in the US and my opinion isn't as valid as yours but I am still allowed to express it. I have no problem with you expressing your opinion and I respect your views but it doesn't seem like you are respecting mine. I don't know whether it is because I am not American and I'm also young but I have been very diplomatic and have tried not to cause an argument even though you were being aggressive.
Conca
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Permalink Reply by Cheryl Westley on -
Yosef speaks truth.
I'm not a big fan of Picasso's art. I personally wouldn't even call most of it "art". In fact, most of it is rather ugly -- nevermind the so-called "deeper interpretations".
This view will offend many in the artistic community.
...but Picasso is dead. And he's famous. What on earth am I gonna do about that???
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Permalink Reply by Connor Wyatt on
-
Haha very true, also to me as an art student, I find it very overrated.
Conca
Cheryl Westley said:Yosef speaks truth.
I'm not a big fan of Picasso's art. I personally wouldn't even call most of it "art". In fact, most of it is rather ugly -- nevermind the so-called "deeper interpretations".
This view will offend many in the artistic community.
...but Picasso is dead. And he's famous. What on earth am I gonna do about that???
-
Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on -
Conca,
Yes, and better warn all your friends and family members about me too!
LOL
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Conca said:Haha, I'm sorry then Saul, and I'll make sure I never cut you up on the road!
Conca ; )
Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
"Aggressive" is my middle name...; - )
You should see me in my car when other drivers around me (and especially in front of me) do stupid things!
Now THAT'S "aggressive"...LOL
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
-
Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on
-
As a matter of fact, I do. It's simply: "stay out of my !@#%! way!!!!!!!!!!"
Muhahahahahahahahha...; - )
LOL
Saul (Nemesis of slow-poke drivers the world over)
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Ian Jay said:Anybody got a good script for ROAD RAGE?
;-) Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
Yes, and better warn all your friends and family members about me too! LOL Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Conca said:Haha, I'm sorry then Saul, and I'll make sure I never cut you up on the road!
Conca ; )
Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
"Aggressive" is my middle name...; - )
You should see me in my car when other drivers around me (and especially in front of me) do stupid things!
Now THAT'S "aggressive"...LOL Saul www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
-
Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on
-
Allan,
Well, I took the !@#@! test, and on the basis if my score it recommended that I turn myself in to the police immediately, have myself sterilized, and spend the remainder of my life (after they release me from one of those prisons for the "criminally insane") meditating in a Buddhist retreat far removed from civilization and even the remote possibility of contact with my fellow man.
LOL
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Allan Nelson said:lol Take Anger Quiz Hit the face below to get started :)
Saul Rosenfeld said:As a matter of fact, I do. It's simply: "stay out of my !@#%! way!!!!!!!!!!"
Muhahahahahahahahha...; - )
LOL
Saul (Nemesis of slow-poke drivers the world over)
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Ian Jay said:Anybody got a good script for ROAD RAGE?
;-) Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
Yes, and better warn all your friends and family members about me too! LOL Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Conca said:Haha, I'm sorry then Saul, and I'll make sure I never cut you up on the road!
Conca ; )
Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
"Aggressive" is my middle name...; - )
You should see me in my car when other drivers around me (and especially in front of me) do stupid things!
Now THAT'S "aggressive"...LOL Saul www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
-
Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on
-
Allan,
Might I respectfully suggest loaning me a gun (I wouldn't want to use mine!) and then driving directly in front of me while going below the posted speed limit...??
That would save taxpayers the cost of your execution, AND provide ME with a bit of much-needed stress relief!
LOL
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Allan Nelson said:Saul; I fared worse on the test, I'm waiting execution tomorrow :-)
Saul Rosenfeld said:Allan,
Well, I took the !@#@! test, and on the basis of my score it recommended that I turn myself in to the police immediately, have myself sterilized, and spend the remainder of my life (after they release me from one of those prisons for the "criminally insane") meditating in a Buddhist retreat far removed from civilization and even the remote possibility of contact with my fellow man. LOL Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Allan Nelson said:lol Take Anger Quiz Hit the face below to get started :)
Saul Rosenfeld said:As a matter of fact, I do. It's simply: "stay out of my !@#%! way!!!!!!!!!!"
Muhahahahahahahahha...; - )
LOL
Saul (Nemesis of slow-poke drivers the world over) www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Ian Jay said:Anybody got a good script for ROAD RAGE?
;-) Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
Yes, and better warn all your friends and family members about me too! LOL Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Conca said:Haha, I'm sorry then Saul, and I'll make sure I never cut you up on the road!
Conca ; )
Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
"Aggressive" is my middle name...; - )
You should see me in my car when other drivers around me (and especially in front of me) do stupid things!
Now THAT'S "aggressive"...LOL Saul www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
-
Permalink Reply by Connor Wyatt on
-
Haha kills two birds with one stone, not bad.
Conca ; )
Saul Rosenfeld said:Allan,
Might I respectfully suggest loaning me a gun (I wouldn't want to use mine!) and then driving directly in front of me while going below the posted speed limit...??
That would save taxpayers the cost of your execution, AND provide ME with a bit of much-needed stress relief!
LOL
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Allan Nelson said:Saul; I fared worse on the test, I'm waiting execution tomorrow :-)
Saul Rosenfeld said:Allan,
Well, I took the !@#@! test, and on the basis of my score it recommended that I turn myself in to the police immediately, have myself sterilized, and spend the remainder of my life (after they release me from one of those prisons for the "criminally insane") meditating in a Buddhist retreat far removed from civilization and even the remote possibility of contact with my fellow man. LOL Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Allan Nelson said:lol Take Anger Quiz Hit the face below to get started :)
Saul Rosenfeld said:As a matter of fact, I do. It's simply: "stay out of my !@#%! way!!!!!!!!!!"
Muhahahahahahahahha...; - )
LOL
Saul (Nemesis of slow-poke drivers the world over) www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Ian Jay said:Anybody got a good script for ROAD RAGE?
;-) Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
Yes, and better warn all your friends and family members about me too! LOL Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Conca said:Haha, I'm sorry then Saul, and I'll make sure I never cut you up on the road!
Conca ; )
Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
"Aggressive" is my middle name...; - )
You should see me in my car when other drivers around me (and especially in front of me) do stupid things!
Now THAT'S "aggressive"...LOL Saul www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
-
Permalink Reply by Saul Rosenfeld on
-
Conca,
Well, unlike my hatred of slow-poke drivers, I actually LIKE birds, so I don't know if that's a good analogy...
LOL
saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Conca said:Haha kills two birds with one stone, not bad.
Conca ; )
Saul Rosenfeld said:Allan,
Might I respectfully suggest loaning me a gun (I wouldn't want to use mine!) and then driving directly in front of me while going below the posted speed limit...??
That would save taxpayers the cost of your execution, AND provide ME with a bit of much-needed stress relief!
LOL
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Allan Nelson said:Saul; I fared worse on the test, I'm waiting execution tomorrow :-)
Saul Rosenfeld said:Allan,
Well, I took the !@#@! test, and on the basis of my score it recommended that I turn myself in to the police immediately, have myself sterilized, and spend the remainder of my life (after they release me from one of those prisons for the "criminally insane") meditating in a Buddhist retreat far removed from civilization and even the remote possibility of contact with my fellow man. LOL Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Allan Nelson said:lol Take Anger Quiz Hit the face below to get started :)
Saul Rosenfeld said:As a matter of fact, I do. It's simply: "stay out of my !@#%! way!!!!!!!!!!"
Muhahahahahahahahha...; - )
LOL
Saul (Nemesis of slow-poke drivers the world over) www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Ian Jay said:Anybody got a good script for ROAD RAGE?
;-) Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
Yes, and better warn all your friends and family members about me too! LOL Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Conca said:Haha, I'm sorry then Saul, and I'll make sure I never cut you up on the road!
Conca ; )
Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
"Aggressive" is my middle name...; - )
You should see me in my car when other drivers around me (and especially in front of me) do stupid things!
Now THAT'S "aggressive"...LOL Saul www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
-
Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on -
How about feed two birds with one seed?
Wheeee!
Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
Well, unlike my hatred of slow-poke drivers, I actually LIKE birds, so I don't know if that's a good analogy...
LOL
saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Conca said:Haha kills two birds with one stone, not bad.
Conca ; )
Saul Rosenfeld said:Allan,
Might I respectfully suggest loaning me a gun (I wouldn't want to use mine!) and then driving directly in front of me while going below the posted speed limit...??
That would save taxpayers the cost of your execution, AND provide ME with a bit of much-needed stress relief!
LOL
Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Allan Nelson said:Saul; I fared worse on the test, I'm waiting execution tomorrow :-)
Saul Rosenfeld said:Allan,
Well, I took the !@#@! test, and on the basis of my score it recommended that I turn myself in to the police immediately, have myself sterilized, and spend the remainder of my life (after they release me from one of those prisons for the "criminally insane") meditating in a Buddhist retreat far removed from civilization and even the remote possibility of contact with my fellow man. LOL Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Allan Nelson said:lol Take Anger Quiz Hit the face below to get started :)
Saul Rosenfeld said:As a matter of fact, I do. It's simply: "stay out of my !@#%! way!!!!!!!!!!"
Muhahahahahahahahha...; - )
LOL
Saul (Nemesis of slow-poke drivers the world over) www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Ian Jay said:Anybody got a good script for ROAD RAGE?
;-) Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
Yes, and better warn all your friends and family members about me too! LOL Saul
www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
Conca said:Haha, I'm sorry then Saul, and I'll make sure I never cut you up on the road!
Conca ; )
Saul Rosenfeld said:Conca,
"Aggressive" is my middle name...; - )
You should see me in my car when other drivers around me (and especially in front of me) do stupid things!
Now THAT'S "aggressive"...LOL Saul www.HistoryOfHypnotism.com
-
Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on -
I am not slating Erickson.
Isn't it amazing how defencive peope get about the guy?
I'm asking why people say he change the face of hypnosis when what he actually did was cvhange psychotherapy. Not the ame thing in my understanding.
You will not be able to find me sying that Erickons psychotherapy was anything but successful, lthough we may argue what understand of duccessful we are using.
I am trying to asertain why a guy who from visible evidance wasn't all that great a hypnotist is luded as such.
And so far no one has shown me anything to make me believe he was a good HYPNOTIST.
Other than hearsay and hero worship.
I have no doubt he was charismatic, clever, personable, well intentioned and different.
Graham Old said:Hmmm...
Jon, didn't you just recently state, '"An arrogant man tells you how bad everyone else is."'?
I've seen you slating Erickson a number of times and I really don't understand why. Who would you posit as better than Erickson? I can't think of anyone and I've seen countless videos of you, Elman, Boyne, Banyan, Jacquin, Smart... etc.
Perhaps the difference - and I can't believe you're missing this - is that Erickson would work with people that some 'direct' hypnotists would turn away.
You know, introduce me to one hypnotist who's helped one person quit smoking and I'll gladly put that person on a pedastal. I don't care if that's you or Erickson or Eastabrooks or Royle. It's an incredible thing to change someone's life. Erickson, who influenced Strategic Therapy, Brief Therapy, Hypnotherapy, NLP and Family Therapy changed countless lives. How about you give him some respect for that?
I know it would take a lot of pride-swallowing on your behalf to answer that question, but I know you've got it in you.
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