There is no such thing as "Self" Hypnosis

There is auto suggestion but that isn't the same thing.

Discuss.

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on February 7, 2010 at 2:46pm

Again not a suggestion Adrian. Not even in the commonly accepted sense of the word. If the respondant is involved enough to agree consciously. "Yes, okay." Choice being involved there. Then it is not suggestion.

"Make tea" and the then you realise the tea is made - that's a hypnotic suggestion. If you look it up in a dictionary then it's pretty damn clear what it means. Or do you choose to ignore the dictionary when it suits as well?

But back to original premiss that there can not be self hypnosis because the word describes an act brought about or induced by another person.

Now we can argue the meaning of words all day but I find that is what confuses people most about the beautiful art of hypnosis. The common understanding and the dictionary understanding agree, it's only usually the people who think it's what they are doing who change that definition and understanding to suit themselves.

And no, I am not doing that. I am merely disagreeing that any use of the word to describe other states and approaches is misleading. IE Psychotherapy is not hypnosis. Relaxation is not hypnosis. But lots of people sling those two together under the heading of HYPNOytherapy thinking they are hypnosis.

Adrian Tannock said:

Jonathan Chase said:
That's a request Adrian, and you know it.
Adrian Tannock said:
Jonathan Chase said:
Hypnosis = The delivery of a suggestion by another. And the acting out of such by the respondent.

Friend #1: Would make a cup of tea?
Friend #2: Yes, okay.

Therefore Friend #2 is "hypnotised"? I don't buy it.

Whereas social compliance & role-taking seems to be a component part of a person's experience of hypnosis, that's not the whole story and I suspect you know it.

Cheers,

Adrian

Okay - I'll play. That request (roughly originating from "to seek") is different from suggestion (roughly originating from "to bring forward, to build up") means your distinction is fair enough. Let's try again:

Friend #1: You put the kettle on, I'll go to the shop and get the biccies.
Friend #2: Okay, old bean. Why not? [jumps up; goes and makes the tea].

Friend #2 is compliant to the suggestion, without conscious thought even, but again is he really "hypnotised"? I don't think so; your definition doesn't tell the whole story.

Cheers,

Adrian

PS: Glad you liked the story; it seemed to make perfect sense to some :-p

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Permalink Reply by Jan Krüger on February 7, 2010 at 3:22pm

Ian Jay said:

....there can not be self hypnosis ...

I am with you on this. Its a very misleading term, and used by some (no one here, I'm sure) to sell hocus-pocus tapes as the total solution to many problems.

In my opinions the tapes are neither here nor there. Are they useful? Perhaps. Certainly not to everyone... not to me, at any rate. I find that they actually make it harder for me to get into any contemplative state of mind. Should we discuss tapes here? I don't think so. We'd have to get into how much of them is actually self hypnosis, and that detracts from the main topic. Which I find entirely pointless, by the way, because it's been nothing but semantic quibbling so far.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on February 7, 2010 at 3:22pm

Spontaneous hypnosis, accidental hypnosis, highway hypnosis, etc...
The Hypnotist Jon Chase says "There is no such thing as self-hypnosis" and on the other side of the pond, Michael Ellner respectfully disagrees saying 'Every little thing is self-hypnosis".... Even stranger, Jon and Mike are both right! Right?

Self-hypnosis is not a state or a thing - Self-hypnosis is a process.

Ian Jay said:

Sadly, the etymology of a word, and the historic meaning of the word are of no reliable value or indicator of meaning in the vocabulary of today. Furthermore, the meaning of many words are open to interpretation.

Simple example: "Jon Chase is a gay lad!"
Does this mean you are a happy, carefree man. Or a homosexual?

Simple example: "Jon Chase is a queer lad!"
Does this mean you are strange man. Or a homosexual?

Who best knows the meaning - he that says the word, or he who hears the word?

Thus, hypnosis is what Jon Chase believes it to be. (This cannot be argued against, for only Jon Chase knows what he is attempting to communicate. There are no mind readers with access to your intentions and thoughts.)

* I should add that in no way, shape, or form am I questioning your gender or sexual preferences.

Jonathan Chase said:
Wrong Ian. Hypnosis is what the word was coined to describe. An induced state of mono-idialism or single thought. Fascination and focus probably defines it best. Trance being a sometimes observed symptom. Induced means in hypnosis to lead or move by persuasion or influence, as to some action or state of mind. Braid and his compatriots all agree on this definition. I choose to accept that definition because the bastardised and augmented definition has got to the point where the meaning of hypnosis is soooo loose it covers just about any interaction between people. Within the confines of any original understanding of the word that is ridiculous. And meaningless.
Taking that meaningless is a small blue African bird. Ian Jay said:
No, hypnosis to Jon Chase is what Jon Chase (JC) believes it is.
BTW, 'actual hypnosis' is a tautology. There is hypnosis, or not. ;-) Just to save anymore confusion .... in what could be a very interesting discussion. Cheryl Westley said:
So... actual hypnosis = "mind control" by another person, and nothing else??

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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on February 7, 2010 at 3:42pm

Such controversy is the very reason I chose to provide my own definition of the term hypnosis, that generically covers the topic. That being: The purposeful induction of a trance state, by whatever means is successful.

In my opinion, hypnosis is all about inducing the natural state we call trance, that we have to use in order to multi-task. Using hypnosis techniques, we can deepen this trance beyond what is normally capable by one's self.

John

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Permalink Reply by Michael Haifleigh on February 7, 2010 at 4:45pm

There is no such thing as "Self" Hypnosis.
It seems straight forward ; )

Michael

Michael Haifleigh said:

No such thing as "Self" Hypnosis? I agree.
Michael

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Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on February 7, 2010 at 5:08pm

Actually, that is not necessarily true. There is no such thing as self-somnambulism for sure, but meditation and certain self-hypnosis techniques do yield trance phenomenon. In such cases, it does fit the definition that I provided, which is: the purposeful induction of a trance state, by whatever means is successful.

All trance is not somnambulism
John

Michael Haifleigh said:

There is no such thing as "Self" Hypnosis.
It seems straight forward ; )

Michael

Michael Haifleigh said:
No such thing as "Self" Hypnosis? I agree.
Michael

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Permalink Reply by Michael Haifleigh on February 7, 2010 at 6:02pm

I accept Jonathan's contextual use of "Self" Hypnosis. He need not adopt mine. And I don't think they are far enough apart to make a difference in his or my experience of the world.

Michael

Michael Haifleigh said:

There is no such thing as "Self" Hypnosis.
It seems straight forward ; )

Michael

Michael Haifleigh said:
No such thing as "Self" Hypnosis? I agree.
Michael

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on February 8, 2010 at 3:56am

i Doc,

I disagree entirely with the 'Heightened suggestibility' theory. My experience is that some people are more suggestible than others. The easier ones are the ones more likely to do hypnosis well. And indeed much more likely to both need and search for hypnosis. Without doubt hypnosis is the use of suggestion and suggestibility. I am aware of Robertson's theory on who the father of this and that is but, the word was coined to describe a specific state and process and widening the meaning just dilutes the understanding.

Doc Regal said:

Braid coined the term 'Neuro-Hypnotism' (meaning a partial sleep or inhibition of the nervous system) which he himself abbreviated to 'Hypnotism':
By the term "Neuro-Hypnotism," then, is to be understood "nervous sleep," [...] a peculiar state of the nervous system, induced by a fixed and abstracted attention of the mental and visual eye, on one object, not of an exciting nature. [Braid, Neurypnology, 1843]

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on February 8, 2010 at 3:58am

Ten add something un semantic to it Jan

Jan Krüger said:

Ian Jay said:
....there can not be self hypnosis ...

I am with you on this. Its a very misleading term, and used by some (no one here, I'm sure) to sell hocus-pocus tapes as the total solution to many problems.

In my opinions the tapes are neither here nor there. Are they useful? Perhaps. Certainly not to everyone... not to me, at any rate. I find that they actually make it harder for me to get into any contemplative state of mind. Should we discuss tapes here? I don't think so. We'd have to get into how much of them is actually self hypnosis, and that detracts from the main topic. Which I find entirely pointless, by the way, because it's been nothing but semantic quibbling so far.

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on February 8, 2010 at 4:01am

Off topic I know Ian but 'Tapes'? How old are you?

CDs and Mp3s maybe. I have a tape player but haven't used it in 5 years. ;-)

Ian Jay said:

Tapes are an issue if you sell them, for it is in your interest to perpetuate the myth.

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on February 8, 2010 at 4:03am

John Cleesattel said:

All trance is not somnambulism
John

Agreed John, but all Hypnosis is.

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Permalink Reply by Ricky Strode on February 8, 2010 at 4:54am

but there are things that are just as useful in doing these things that are not self-hypnosis, but rather an intentional induced trance for purpose by ones self. Your going to have to come up with alot better stuff than what you have if you want to make a name for yourself. Anyone that doesn't know much about hypnosis, or trance wouldn't know that, but most of us should. Experience in that state is the ultimate deciding factor nomatter what anyone say and just with like anything else, nothing is ever absolute.