There is no such thing as "Self" Hypnosis

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Permalink Reply by Michael Haifleigh on February 7, 2010 at 6:02pm

I accept Jonathan's contextual use of "Self" Hypnosis. He need not adopt mine. And I don't think they are far enough apart to make a difference in his or my experience of the world.

Michael

Michael Haifleigh said:

There is no such thing as "Self" Hypnosis.
It seems straight forward ; )

Michael


Michael Haifleigh said:

No such thing as "Self" Hypnosis? I agree.
Michael

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on February 8, 2010 at 3:56am

i Doc,

I disagree entirely with the 'Heightened suggestibility' theory. My experience is that some people are more suggestible than others. The easier ones are the ones more likely to do hypnosis well. And indeed much more likely to both need and search for hypnosis. Without doubt hypnosis is the use of suggestion and suggestibility. I am aware of Robertson's theory on who the father of this and that is but, the word was coined to describe a specific state and process and widening the meaning just dilutes the understanding.

Doc Regal said:

Braid coined the term 'Neuro-Hypnotism' (meaning a partial sleep or inhibition of the nervous system) which he himself abbreviated to 'Hypnotism':
By the term "Neuro-Hypnotism," then, is to be understood "nervous sleep," [...] a peculiar state of the nervous system, induced by a fixed and abstracted attention of the mental and visual eye, on one object, not of an exciting nature. [Braid, Neurypnology, 1843]

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on February 8, 2010 at 3:58am

Ten add something un semantic to it Jan

Jan Krüger said:

Ian Jay said:

....there can not be self hypnosis ...

I am with you on this. Its a very misleading term, and used by some (no one here, I'm sure) to sell hocus-pocus tapes as the total solution to many problems.

In my opinions the tapes are neither here nor there. Are they useful? Perhaps. Certainly not to everyone... not to me, at any rate. I find that they actually make it harder for me to get into any contemplative state of mind. Should we discuss tapes here? I don't think so. We'd have to get into how much of them is actually self hypnosis, and that detracts from the main topic. Which I find entirely pointless, by the way, because it's been nothing but semantic quibbling so far.

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on February 8, 2010 at 4:01am

Off topic I know Ian but 'Tapes'? How old are you?

CDs and Mp3s maybe. I have a tape player but haven't used it in 5 years. ;-)

Ian Jay said:

Tapes are an issue if you sell them, for it is in your interest to perpetuate the myth.

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on February 8, 2010 at 4:03am

John Cleesattel said:

All trance is not somnambulism
John

Agreed John, but all Hypnosis is.

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Permalink Reply by ricky strode on February 8, 2010 at 4:54am

but there are things that are just as useful in doing these things that are not self-hypnosis, but rather an intentional induced trance for purpose by ones self. Your going to have to come up with alot better stuff than what you have if you want to make a name for yourself. Anyone that doesn't know much about hypnosis, or trance wouldn't know that, but most of us should. Experience in that state is the ultimate deciding factor nomatter what anyone say and just with like anything else, nothing is ever absolute.

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on February 8, 2010 at 5:33am

Not my argument Ricky. You are right of course. However if it don't quack, have a bill and feathers and a waterproof backside chances are it isn't a bloody duck. ;-) and I do say there is self suggestion but still content this isn't self hypnosis.

ricky strode said:

but there are things that are just as useful in doing these things that are not self-hypnosis, but rather an intentional induced trance for purpose by ones self. Your going to have to come up with alot better stuff than what you have if you want to make a name for yourself. Anyone that doesn't know much about hypnosis, or trance wouldn't know that, but most of us should. Experience in that state is the ultimate deciding factor nomatter what anyone say and just with like anything else, nothing is ever absolute.

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Permalink Reply by Doc Regal on February 8, 2010 at 6:00am

Jonathan,

I introduced penned definitions from other authors in my prior post, not my thoughts on this matter. I shall now proceed, with a deeper understanding of what you are seeking to convey, and attempt to delineate precisely and succinctly what Hypnosis is and it is not from my point of view.

Brain activity is measured by frequencies. Examples follow: The phenomenon of hysteria is gamma level of EEG. The phenomenon of waking state is beta level of EEG. The phenomenon of trance is alpha level of EEG. The phenomenon of somnambulism is theta level of EEG. The phenomenon of sleep is delta level of EEG.

Mind is non-measurable. It exists in a realm beyond physical space. Its essence is indescribable energy, and it is invisible to our shared three-dimensional reality.

Hypnosis is the bypassing of an "active" (i.e. thinking , feeling or perceiving) brain in order to instill in ones mind "suggestions", i.e. thoughts, ideas or concepts. A light state of Hypnosis is achieved during the alpha state when the brain's activity is somewhat reduced. A deep state of Hypnosis is achieved during the theta state when the brain's activity is significantly reduced.

The degree of receptivity to hypnosis is not to be equated with suggestibility, rather it parallels the level of ones "hypnotizability". This is tempered (i.e. counterbalanced) by an emotional condition called fear.

All the best,

Dr. Regal
Atlanta, GA

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Permalink Reply by Doc Regal on February 8, 2010 at 6:48am

In addition, Hypnosis is not possible during sleep. The brain must be functioning at a measurable level of awareness in order for Hypnosis to occur.

All the best,

Dr. Regal

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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Chase on February 8, 2010 at 7:44am

Thanks Doc,

I would contend therefore, I have no idea of the accuracy of these perceived levels of EEG however, I would contend that without Theta levels there is no hypnosis and that yes, I totally agree that the brain must be both active and functioning for the process to take place.

In my experience though fear is a handy doorway into hypnosis certainly not tempered by it.

Doc Regal said:

Jonathan,

I introduced penned definitions from other authors in my prior post, not my thoughts on this matter. I shall now proceed, with a deeper understanding of what you are seeking to convey, and attempt to delineate precisely and succinctly what Hypnosis is and it is not from my point of view.

Brain activity is measured by frequencies. Examples follow: The phenomenon of hysteria is gamma level of EEG. The phenomenon of waking state is beta level of EEG. The phenomenon of trance is alpha level of EEG. The phenomenon of somnambulism is theta level of EEG. The phenomenon of sleep is delta level of EEG.

Mind is non-measurable. It exists in a realm beyond physical space. Its essence is indescribable energy, and it is invisible to our shared three-dimensional reality.

Hypnosis is the bypassing of an "active" (i.e. thinking , feeling or perceiving) brain in order to instill in ones mind "suggestions", i.e. thoughts, ideas or concepts. A light state of Hypnosis is achieved during the alpha state when the brain's activity is somewhat reduced. A deep state of Hypnosis is achieved during the theta state when the brain's activity is significantly reduced.

The degree of receptivity to hypnosis is not to be equated with suggestibility, rather it parallels the level of ones "hypnotizability". This is tempered (i.e. counterbalanced) by an emotional condition called fear.

All the best,

Dr. Regal
Atlanta, GA

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Permalink Reply by Doc Regal on February 8, 2010 at 9:18am

Jonathan,

We are very close to sharing a definition on Hypnosis. The point of contingency is the very moment when hypnosis occurs. The dividing line for me is whether or not the brain is functioning at a capacity where it can successfully interfere with the receptivity of mind. With regards to the brain's sleeping state we concur that Hypnosis cannot exist. In fact, we also concur that Hypnosis is present during the theta state, i.e. during pre-consciousness. In the semi-conscious state of alpha, I further assert that Hypnosis (as perceived by mankind) is to a “lesser” degree present as well as during the conscious state of beta. I further surmise that the super-conscious state of gamma is also a hypnotic state, although it may indeed be in alignment with absolute truth.

The measurable range for each level of brain activity varies depending upon the observer's (e.g. scientist's or clinician's) interpretation of the EEG or for that matter, any sensory perception. All brain activity to some extent can be postulated or reasonably argued as hypnotic for ones point of view (mental perspective) is unavoidably limited by fallible sensory mechanisms and therefore hindered.

In brevity I am saying that in the world of relative absolutes, hypnosis occurs to varying degrees from a pre-conscious to a super-conscious perspective, since suspended reality is omnipresent in our three dimensional world, i.e. absolutely true perceptions are impaired, thus all truths are inconceivable and beyond provable. I also add that Hypnosis is only non-existent, and necessarily so, in the realm of unconsciousness because awareness (observable activity) is required for any transference of any imposed suggestion whether by the self or another.

With regards to any direct doorway to the mind, fear is an impediment. Trusting the process is paramount.

Thank you for your continued interest in this matter.

Dr. Regal

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Permalink Reply by Adrian Tannock on February 8, 2010 at 9:44am

Ian Jay said:

Jon

Don't be taken in by this EEG bumf. For, unless you implant electrodes deep into the human brain, to isolate signals, there is no evidence (it's smoke and mirrors). EEG is reasonable for the 'outer shell' stuff, but the 'white noise' and spurious signals make readings from the 'inner shells' open to conjecture. Of course, implantation of electrodes deep into the living human brain is unethical, for obvious reasons.

Agreed - there is no physiological correlate of hypnosis; this EEG stuff isn't a measure of hypnosis...

Cheers,

Adrian

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