These kinds of articles are so discouraging

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Permalink Reply by Henxy on June 4, 2010 at 1:49am

Isn't the clue in the title?!

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Permalink Reply by Henxy on June 4, 2010 at 1:57am

Having read the piece, it strikes me that the individual has not got the integrity to use their own name (says she, with a pseudonym!).

It also strikes me that this person believed that HT was a panacea, not a tool. This is where I think he went wrong.

Hypnotherapy will continue to be a useful tool to help millions of people as long as there are ethical, caring, honest practitioners who have their client's best interests firmly at the top of their priorities.

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Permalink Reply by James Malone on June 4, 2010 at 2:05am

I find "Jakes" account interesting and while I would disagree with him on some points, he does lend credence to the notion that those of us who are not licensed in a mental health discipline should avoid the titles of being a "hypnotherapist" providing "hypnotherapy" as what we do is different than what therapists do.

A certified hypnotist providing motivational coaching as he describes along with teaching stress management skills is a more honest description of what most of us do.

Jake notes that "everyday" issues like weight loss and smoking may be attached to a deeper pathology, which certainly is true in some cases. However if a person is clearly disturbed, are there actually certified hypnotists who don't know that they need to be referred along to someone better equipped to help them?

However, he doesn't consider that sometimes when a person with these kind of issues achieves a worthwhile goal, it often has a positive ripple effect in the rest of their lives. Often quitting smoking, losing some excess weight, overcoming a fear or becoming more confident in school, athletics or the workplace can do wonders for a person.

And he also doesn't take into account that the majority of people who come to see us don't have bona fide mental health problems and often prefer to be helped by someone who is not part of the formal mental health system.

Jake himself admits that he seemed to help a number of people although "I often found myself feeling frustrated because I wanted to help my clients more than I had the capacity to." Since this article was posted on a site dedicated to the development of critical thinking, I am curious as to whether Jake has any data that would show that he (or the rest of us) are less effective in working with the "everyday problems of everyday life" than the licensed practitioners? I perceive a big assumption here.

However since he wants to work with the larger psychological issues he is doing the right thing in pursuing an advanced mental health degree and I wish him luck. Jim

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Permalink Reply by Henxy on June 4, 2010 at 2:11am

I enjoyed your post, Jim.
I would have to disagree that an MA in Counselling is any form of mental health degree, though. It's another tool, although learned in a significantly more credible environment than his hypno 'qualifications'.

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Permalink Reply by Dennis Atkinson on June 4, 2010 at 5:28am

James, I have strongly disagreed with this idea we need to refrain from using the word therapy.

I certainly do not think of someone being a psychologist or PhD when I hear the title "massage therapy" or "massage therapist" ... I equate the title with what it is.

Perhaps the focus of the medical and psychological occupations should be the diploma mills that pump out the less than credible degrees.

James Malone said:

I find "Jakes" account interesting and while I would disagree with him on some points, he does lend credence to the notion that those of us who are not licensed in a mental health discipline should avoid the titles of being a "hypnotherapist" providing "hypnotherapy" as what we do is different than what therapists do.

A certified hypnotist providing motivational coaching as he describes along with teaching stress management skills is a more honest description of what most of us do.

Jake notes that "everyday" issues like weight loss and smoking may be attached to a deeper pathology, which certainly is true in some cases. However if a person is clearly disturbed, are there actually certified hypnotists who don't know that they need to be referred along to someone better equipped to help them?

However, he doesn't consider that sometimes when a person with these kind of issues achieves a worthwhile goal, it often has a positive ripple effect in the rest of their lives. Often quitting smoking, losing some excess weight, overcoming a fear or becoming more confident in school, athletics or the workplace can do wonders for a person.

And he also doesn't take into account that the majority of people who come to see us don't have bona fide mental health problems and often prefer to be helped by someone who is not part of the formal mental health system.

Jake himself admits that he seemed to help a number of people although "I often found myself feeling frustrated because I wanted to help my clients more than I had the capacity to." Since this article was posted on a site dedicated to the development of critical thinking, I am curious as to whether Jake has any data that would show that he (or the rest of us) are less effective in working with the "everyday problems of everyday life" than the licensed practitioners? I perceive a big assumption here.

However since he wants to work with the larger psychological issues he is doing the right thing in pursuing an advanced mental health degree and I wish him luck. Jim

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Permalink Reply by Robert S on June 4, 2010 at 5:31am

Thanks James, nice post.

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Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on June 4, 2010 at 6:10am

Let that discouragement just drift on by, RC.

I read Fail! in the subtext of the article's author. With the number of certifications he cites, including his training by Gil Boyne, he claims NEVER to have received training about tranference?! More likely, he wasn't paying attention in class when that subject was taught, which makes one wonder what other vital education went over his head.

A successful hypnotherapist, and yes, I call myself one, becomes such due to not only formal training, but to his degree of intellect and imagination, personal communication skills, business prowess and life experience. Part of all that includes the discernment to know when to refer out, although we are not always given that opportunity at the onset of our work. I have had more than one client confess sessions later that she was considering suicide prior to finding me...which, to me, proves ONCE AGAIN (heh heh Saul is being channelled) how traditional interventions do not work for so many people.

As readers know, this field is so vast and stimulating that only a dull lout would bore of it and move into something else. Don't let the anonymous sceptic's disenchantment in himself deter your own joy.

Have a nice day!

Kelley

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Permalink Reply by Bruce Taylor C.Ht on June 4, 2010 at 6:46am

Very interesting article. I am amazed at Jake's ability to give up his craft. I would have to guess he was not very successful at it. I am thrilled every day at how I can help my client. I believe that yes, many teachers of the craft have offered low hour certifications. I would hope that a newly anointed hypnotist would continue their education and to not dwell into areas that they had not been trained in as I would think a counselor would do with their much enhanced hours of training. Yes I would agree that some have an arrogance about them and would dive into areas they have no business diving into. I also think these same people would also do the same in other areas as well. They probably also believe in more governement too. Sorry, just throwing that in for my own amusement. I hope that hypnotists that do hypnotherapy would be smart enough to work in areas of experience. If they have no experience then get some.

I am certified in scuba. I have my wreck certification and my rescue certification.I received my basic certification in the 70's. When I got that it did not allow me the knowledge to dive a ship wreck, a cave, a deep dive or many other areas that additional training was required. DO people take that basic certification and think they can do it all. Certanly they do. Not everyone, most would be aware enough to take this sport seriously and persue additional training to help them to be the best and safest at it as possible. Maybe a poor example, but I think you cannot cover all the anomalies that come with whatever you decide to get into. There are always bad apples that spoil the bushell.

Also surprised that a student of Gil Boyne he would feel this way. I would bet he is not as studied under Gil as he stated.

I also agree with Dennis on the therapist issue.

My two cents and maybe a little ramblin on.

Bruce Taylor

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Permalink Reply by James Malone on June 4, 2010 at 6:49am

Dennis, I know the use of the hypnotherapy title has been the subject of much debate. For me the point is moot since my home state of New Jersey expressly forbids someone such as myself from using it. I just follow the idea suggested by the NGH that we are a separate and distinct profession providing a valuable service and not to think of ourselves as some sort of poor cousin to the other professions. Jim

Dennis Atkinson said:

James, I have strongly disagreed with this idea we need to refrain from using the word therapy.

I certainly do not think of someone being a psychologist or PhD when I hear the title "massage therapy" or "massage therapist" ... I equate the title with what it is.

Perhaps the focus of the medical and psychological occupations should be the diploma mills that pump out the less than credible degrees.

James Malone said:

I find "Jakes" account interesting and while I would disagree with him on some points, he does lend credence to the notion that those of us who are not licensed in a mental health discipline should avoid the titles of being a "hypnotherapist" providing "hypnotherapy" as what we do is different than what therapists do.

A certified hypnotist providing motivational coaching as he describes along with teaching stress management skills is a more honest description of what most of us do.

Jake notes that "everyday" issues like weight loss and smoking may be attached to a deeper pathology, which certainly is true in some cases. However if a person is clearly disturbed, are there actually certified hypnotists who don't know that they need to be referred along to someone better equipped to help them?

However, he doesn't consider that sometimes when a person with these kind of issues achieves a worthwhile goal, it often has a positive ripple effect in the rest of their lives. Often quitting smoking, losing some excess weight, overcoming a fear or becoming more confident in school, athletics or the workplace can do wonders for a person.

And he also doesn't take into account that the majority of people who come to see us don't have bona fide mental health problems and often prefer to be helped by someone who is not part of the formal mental health system.

Jake himself admits that he seemed to help a number of people although "I often found myself feeling frustrated because I wanted to help my clients more than I had the capacity to." Since this article was posted on a site dedicated to the development of critical thinking, I am curious as to whether Jake has any data that would show that he (or the rest of us) are less effective in working with the "everyday problems of everyday life" than the licensed practitioners? I perceive a big assumption here.

However since he wants to work with the larger psychological issues he is doing the right thing in pursuing an advanced mental health degree and I wish him luck. Jim

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Permalink Reply by GAIL GUEVARA on June 4, 2010 at 7:40am

After reading Jake's article and your posts what comes to my mind is, Who really is Jake?, what do we really know about him on an underneath level, what part of this hypnosis profession does he not trust or is not good enough for him and why, what is it about a "real" degree will change who he really is. I sense something about his "ego" and "self esteem". Hmmm, just my thoughts.

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Permalink Reply by Licentious Maladay on June 4, 2010 at 8:19am

Personally, I think Jake has a point. The accreditation process in hypnotism is a joke. But, unfortunately for Jake (and the rest of us), the accreditation process in other healing arts is equally mickey mouse (no offense, Walt). After seeing several counselors in my checkered past, I now put more faith in recommendations from friends and on-line forums than the certificates on the wall.

Lic

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Permalink Reply by Jim Einert on June 4, 2010 at 9:29am

Remember the article is on a skeptic site, and may have been made up totally just to discredit hypnotism.

But we also have to remember that just because a person has a degree as a counselor it doesn't make them a perfect counselor. I find that most counselors became counselors because they have the same problems they are trying to help solve. I mean who wants to go to a marriage counselor who has been divorced and remarried 3 or 4 times. He truly has not figured out the problem for himself.

I think since we ALL know so little about the mind we are all just experimenting on our clients, no matter our degrees or lack of them. I study all the time, I am always reading everything I can get my hands on about hypnosis, NLP and the mind. I think training is very important, and I don't do "therapy", and have no license to do such. I am a certified hypnotist (NGH) and will continue to improve my education as I go along.

I think "Jake's" story is just there to lash out at the hypnotist. It has no real meaning other than to say hypnotists are quacks. But if we are, then so are counselors and therapist, as I know that sometimes they work with people for years and never solve their problems (I am not meaning this applies to all counselors and therapist). I think as hypnotist we have a great ability to help people overcome their problems, and I think we should use what we know and learn to help those we can. As the old saying goes, "Don't get above your pay grade". In other words, if you come across something you feel is "over your head" then send the person somewhere else, but if you can help someone with their problem, by all means help.

I have 2 clients who are seeing therapists, but I will help them to the best of my abilities to overcome the problems I can help them with. You don't always have to go back to where it all began to help someone quit smoking or to lose weight. I am going next month to Parts Therapy Training, which I think will help me be able to go deeper in my helping my clients to overcome their problems.

Also I am a Naturopathic Doctor, and I have learned in my years of study many things that help people to help themselves to get "well" by using natural remedies, I also include that knowledge in my counseling to stop smoking and weight loss, but many hypnotists have helped people to stop smoking and lose weight without knowing anything about nutrition, so should I be upset that hypnotists are "not qualified" to help with smoking or weight loss because they don't know what I know about nutrition. Hey if it works for you, great. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!!!

Sorry this rambled on and was so long. Hope you get my meaning. You do the best you can do with what you have and never stop learning. That's how it works!

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