Traveling Hypnotherapist

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on March 7, 2011 at 11:21am

Readers of this thread may find this News item of interest-

FYI - I will be positing this item as a new discussion as well--

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11033049/1/professions-under-governm...

For those on the other side of the pond - The Street is a highly regarded financial publication and Joe Mont is a highly respected journalist --

 

Michael Ellner @ http://www.nycanxietyhypnosis.com

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Permalink Reply by John B. Lee IV on March 7, 2011 at 11:50am

James, that was my sarcastic point. I followed up and was a bit more descriptive. Within the belief of dictating a right structure and a wrong structure, hypnosis is a bit too fluid an art. When someone is crying out Charlatan you may not want to cite work that can be deemed slow. As I also said, we have all had ineffective sessions and results. Thanks James.

James Hazlerig said:

In all fairness, John--every client is different. Some need more sessions than others. Personally, I've never had a client need eight sessions to resolve their issues, but I think it's more important to get the work done than to become obsessed with making it happen overnight.

One pitfall of our profession is that sometimes it works so quickly and effectively as to seem like magic. This creates the false impression that when it doesn't work that way, it isn't working at all--which ultimately does a disservice to those who may need more sessions.

Compared to conventional therapy, eight sessions is still pretty quick. :-)

James



John B. Lee IV said:

I don't mean to jump on the Ann Bashing Express, but I will express my views...

 

Firstly, I don't want people thinking it will take 8 sessions for hypnosis to help them break free of IBS. I hope you didn't charge for 8!

 

That said---regulation or not --- what makes someone a hypnotist? The ability to incite hypnotic phenomena. That is it. How well you do this, how powerfully you do this, how diverse an audience you can do this to and under what range of circumstances dictate your efficacy . Can you imagine the flexibility and skill of a performance hypnotist? Can you imagine the raw ability of the hypnotherapist that can relieve IBS in one or two sessions? So realistically what deems someone unqualified?  And the big question that I am not sure has been asked, what makes you think you are qualified, or do you?

 

Here is a taste of irony: the NGH, the almighty regulatory group that deemed me worthy of certification, established guidelines and standards of learning within their accredited schools. I met their standards, passed their tests and still did not feel like a hypnotist. After 1000s of hours of study and time spent within my practice beyond the accredited process, I now feel like a hypnotist, think as a hypnotist... I am a hypnotist. But it has nothing really to do with the certification. Anyone can learn hypnosis techniques and demonstrate under sterile conditions, but to become a hypnotist is a different animal.

ann jaloba said:

Hi Richard

 

You say: ‘But from a more logical perspective, people do not call a hypnotists and make an appointment for hypnosis if they have a negative impression.   Those people never see a hypnotist.’

 

That is exactly the problem which many of us find.  People who want a solution to a a behaviour or condition which is making them unhappy do not consider hyponotherapy because of the bad impression that charlatans and amateurs create.

 

To give just one example, I have recently successfully treated an ex-colleague who has suffered from IBS for many years. After 8 sessions she is better. She says the treatment has transformed her life. Yet if she had not known me, she would not have dreamed of having hypnotherapy (she has told me this). The reason,? She would have been unsure of the efficacy of the treatment and concerned about the quality of the practitioners. She would have missed the chance to return to health because of the poor reputation which unregulated pracitioners can create.

 

Most people, quite rightly in my view, would not go to an unqualified medical doctor. So why should they go to an unqualified hypnotherapist?

 

I am pleased that, in the UK at least, there is an increasingly strong movement to regulate our profession and I will do everything  I can to help this succeed.

 

Donna I am sorry if I have hijacked your thread.

 

Ann

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Permalink Reply by James Hazlerig - HypnosisAustin on March 7, 2011 at 12:02pm

I see your point now, John. Sometimes tone is hard to pick up in text. :-) 

 

And I agree, hypnosis is so fluid that regulation is fraught with danger.

 

James

John B. Lee IV said:

James, that was my sarcastic point. I followed up and was a bit more descriptive. Within the belief of dictating a right structure and a wrong structure, hypnosis is a bit too fluid an art. When someone is crying out Charlatan you may not want to cite work that can be deemed slow. As I also said, we have all had ineffective sessions and results. Thanks James.

James Hazlerig said:

In all fairness, John--every client is different. Some need more sessions than others. Personally, I've never had a client need eight sessions to resolve their issues, but I think it's more important to get the work done than to become obsessed with making it happen overnight.

One pitfall of our profession is that sometimes it works so quickly and effectively as to seem like magic. This creates the false impression that when it doesn't work that way, it isn't working at all--which ultimately does a disservice to those who may need more sessions.

Compared to conventional therapy, eight sessions is still pretty quick. :-)

James



John B. Lee IV said:

I don't mean to jump on the Ann Bashing Express, but I will express my views...

 

Firstly, I don't want people thinking it will take 8 sessions for hypnosis to help them break free of IBS. I hope you didn't charge for 8!

 

That said---regulation or not --- what makes someone a hypnotist? The ability to incite hypnotic phenomena. That is it. How well you do this, how powerfully you do this, how diverse an audience you can do this to and under what range of circumstances dictate your efficacy . Can you imagine the flexibility and skill of a performance hypnotist? Can you imagine the raw ability of the hypnotherapist that can relieve IBS in one or two sessions? So realistically what deems someone unqualified?  And the big question that I am not sure has been asked, what makes you think you are qualified, or do you?

 

Here is a taste of irony: the NGH, the almighty regulatory group that deemed me worthy of certification, established guidelines and standards of learning within their accredited schools. I met their standards, passed their tests and still did not feel like a hypnotist. After 1000s of hours of study and time spent within my practice beyond the accredited process, I now feel like a hypnotist, think as a hypnotist... I am a hypnotist. But it has nothing really to do with the certification. Anyone can learn hypnosis techniques and demonstrate under sterile conditions, but to become a hypnotist is a different animal.

ann jaloba said:

Hi Richard

 

You say: ‘But from a more logical perspective, people do not call a hypnotists and make an appointment for hypnosis if they have a negative impression.   Those people never see a hypnotist.’

 

That is exactly the problem which many of us find.  People who want a solution to a a behaviour or condition which is making them unhappy do not consider hyponotherapy because of the bad impression that charlatans and amateurs create.

 

To give just one example, I have recently successfully treated an ex-colleague who has suffered from IBS for many years. After 8 sessions she is better. She says the treatment has transformed her life. Yet if she had not known me, she would not have dreamed of having hypnotherapy (she has told me this). The reason,? She would have been unsure of the efficacy of the treatment and concerned about the quality of the practitioners. She would have missed the chance to return to health because of the poor reputation which unregulated pracitioners can create.

 

Most people, quite rightly in my view, would not go to an unqualified medical doctor. So why should they go to an unqualified hypnotherapist?

 

I am pleased that, in the UK at least, there is an increasingly strong movement to regulate our profession and I will do everything  I can to help this succeed.

 

Donna I am sorry if I have hijacked your thread.

 

Ann

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Permalink Reply by Kathleen Hanover on March 7, 2011 at 5:25pm

Hi Henxy,

 

Perception is reality.  :)  My perception is that Ann really does think that regulation is a magical panacea. I could be completely wrong, but she did come off as very pro-regulation crusader-ish to me.

 

My first NLP/life coach told me something once that really hit me between the eyes: "you can't get enough of what you don't need." He said it in the context of weight loss--using food to fill up an empty emotional hole would never work, because it wasn't about being hungry. But that same concept applies in this case, too, I believe.

 

It's a very similar argument to "gun control" laws here in the U.S. The problem: criminals use guns to commit crimes. "Gun control" advocates think that the problem is that guns aren't illegal enough. Whereas people like me think that regulations are generally ineffective because people who aren't bothered by laws against assault, rape, murder, etc. aren't going to pay attention to "gun control" laws, either. Gun control laws only disarm the law-abiding--who aren't the problem in the first place.

 

Since the first round of "gun control" legislation failed to stop crime, "gun control" advocates proposed more and more regulations (more of what you don't need), which make it impossible for the law-abiding to legally defend themselves, ironically making it easier for the criminals (now the only ones with guns) to commit more crimes. 

 

Problem: criminals using guns. "Solution": disarming the innocent. You can't get enough of what you don't need, so adding more and more and more totally ineffective anti-gun laws is not only unproductive, it's counter-productive, because it increases violent crime rates.

 

I believe it's the same issue with regulations in general. Lack of regulation is not the problem, so regulation is not the solution. I'd suggest investing the time to first identify the real problem(s) and then creating solutions that address those real problems.

 

I think the problems in the hypnotherapy world are:

• Bad public perception fueled largely by pop culture and entertainment hypnosis
• The inherent subjective-ness of a profession concerned with mental processes/experiences
• Some individual humans who want to be hypnotherapists really suck at it for a variety of individual reasons (ignorance, poor mental health, poor ethics, whatever).

 

I don't think ANY of these problems will be addressed by regulations. Because lack of regulations isn't the problem.

 

Kathleen

p.s. Donna, thanks for letting us take over your thread.  ;)

 

Henxy said:

This is what I believe Ann means. Not regulation which stifles our work, but something which leads to increased credibility.

The presuppositions Kathleen mentions are a little unfair, IMHO. I don't believe anyone has suggested that government regulation or people are infallible: I hear Ann saying that regulation per se would reduce the likelihood of malpractice. Taking her argument further, we would re-regulate medicine, surgery, nursing, midwifery etc and take our chances (even more than we currently do) when we present for healthcare treatment.

I don't think that Ann was suggesting that the existence of regulations would be a panacea; rather, a step in the right direction towards some uniform standards of ethics, practice and professional development.

The failures of the incompetent hypnotherapist are more likely to receive punitive measures and thereby provide reassurance to the public if the 'profession' is regulated than if it's not.

Maybe we're experiencing an across the pond divide here? Maybe I'm putting words into Ann's mouth? I don't want to be regulated, but I (think I) understand Ann's perspective, and I don't think she's as wrong as she's being painted.

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Permalink Reply by Susan French on March 7, 2011 at 5:36pm

Poor Donna,

 

It's wretched when some idiot's opinion throws you into a state of being emotionally hijacked.  Especially so if you feel that it's going to impact your life or your living.

 

When I'm grinding over something for more than an hour or so, I realize that it's really poking some tender spot in myself (obviously) and that I usually DO need to do something to help myself get past it.  I write A LOT of mad letters.  I write them and revise and write and revise until I'm exhausted.  Just be careful not to hit send.  I've done that a few times.  Ooops...very embarrassing. Sometimes I rewrite the letter over a few days.  That's how totally insane I can become if I feel betrayed, threatened or wronged.

 

When I've exhausted my mad letters, I decide if I really want to write something to send to the offender (like your idiot) .  If I still feel that I need to be heard and even tell someone how imperfect they are...lol, then I write a final and send it.  I sleep on the final though.

 

The bottom line though is that that guy can't really change people's minds about hypnosis.  Most people these days know enough about the value of hypnosis that they aren't going to change their minds over some idiot article or statement.  Also, remember that the psychiatrists look down their noses at the psychologists (and then psychologists look down on us but whatever.  We know our value.).  Medical doctors look down their noses at chiropractors and acupuncturists, though both treatments are often paid for by insurance and patients are referred by physicians.

 

Last of all remember that famous quote that I'm going to paraphrase: " Medical science advances one funeral at a time."  The people who will be your clients are usually open to hypnosis already and want to try it.  The  rest probably can't be swayed anyhow and who cares.  These days, with hypnotherapy being on prime-time tv shows every time you turn around and in documentaries, enough mainstream people are already open to it.

 

Mainly I think you took the first right step by sharing it here and venting out some of it anyhow.  Of course you have the right to be annoyed at stupidity and ignorance.  I indulge myself in that activity all the time...lol.

 

Plus, girl, you live in the freaking Napa Valley.  The only place that might be more forward thinking than Napa might be Marin in our neck of the woods.  As  Archie Bunker used to say about Californians: "the land of the fruits and nuts."  Thank the lord I live here rather than...ummm...elsewhere.

 

Hugs to you.  Speak your mind but calm down first so you can make good points.  The guy took a cheap shot with his stupid joke about the CDs..it wasn't even original.

 

Let us know what you do and how you do.  Also, make yourself a list via google of all the real progressive, integrative doctors, wonderful and well-respected physicians who are already using hypnosis themselves or referring out.  Drs. Oz, Weill, Elvira Lang, Maggie Phillips, the Spiegel brothers at their various university (David and Herbert), burn centers, Kaiser Permanente.  I always like to take the attitude that the other person is behind the times and hypnosis/mindbody work is at the cutting edge, which, in my view, it is.

 

Hugs again

 

Susan

http://www.hypno4success.com

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Permalink Reply by Susan French on March 7, 2011 at 5:50pm

Also, going back to read what other said AFTER I posted, I just want to point out that the problem is not really with regulation, in my view.  The problem lies more in who gets to make the decisions and what kind of criteria they use to validate their conclusions and suggestions.

 

I doubt that anyone here would disagree that some kind of standardization would be helpful in a lot of areas: the client, us, the referring MDs but the question returns to: who get's to be the Boss of Everyone...:-)

 

Susan

http://www.hypno4success.com

 

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Permalink Reply by Henxy on March 7, 2011 at 11:11pm

Hi Kathleen,

 

I agree with what you've said here: particularly about a person's reality. (I'm of the opinion that there is no one reality, but the perceptions of people about a series of events).

 

I felt the discussion was a little too one-sided, and wanted to put another perspective across. Interestingly, Ann has not re-posted here, so I guess she didn't need Henxy-mothering after all! ;-)

 

And indeed, Thanks, Donna!

Kathleen Hanover said:

Hi Henxy,

 

Perception is reality.  :)  My perception is that Ann really does think that regulation is a magical panacea. I could be completely wrong, but she did come off as very pro-regulation crusader-ish to me.

 

My first NLP/life coach told me something once that really hit me between the eyes: "you can't get enough of what you don't need." He said it in the context of weight loss--using food to fill up an empty emotional hole would never work, because it wasn't about being hungry. But that same concept applies in this case, too, I believe.

 

It's a very similar argument to "gun control" laws here in the U.S. The problem: criminals use guns to commit crimes. "Gun control" advocates think that the problem is that guns aren't illegal enough. Whereas people like me think that regulations are generally ineffective because people who aren't bothered by laws against assault, rape, murder, etc. aren't going to pay attention to "gun control" laws, either. Gun control laws only disarm the law-abiding--who aren't the problem in the first place.

 

Since the first round of "gun control" legislation failed to stop crime, "gun control" advocates proposed more and more regulations (more of what you don't need), which make it impossible for the law-abiding to legally defend themselves, ironically making it easier for the criminals (now the only ones with guns) to commit more crimes. 

 

Problem: criminals using guns. "Solution": disarming the innocent. You can't get enough of what you don't need, so adding more and more and more totally ineffective anti-gun laws is not only unproductive, it's counter-productive, because it increases violent crime rates.

 

I believe it's the same issue with regulations in general. Lack of regulation is not the problem, so regulation is not the solution. I'd suggest investing the time to first identify the real problem(s) and then creating solutions that address those real problems.

 

I think the problems in the hypnotherapy world are:

• Bad public perception fueled largely by pop culture and entertainment hypnosis
• The inherent subjective-ness of a profession concerned with mental processes/experiences
• Some individual humans who want to be hypnotherapists really suck at it for a variety of individual reasons (ignorance, poor mental health, poor ethics, whatever).

 

I don't think ANY of these problems will be addressed by regulations. Because lack of regulations isn't the problem.

 

Kathleen

p.s. Donna, thanks for letting us take over your thread.  ;)

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