Weight loss advice

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Karen Lockman on November 23, 2009 at 7:37pm

Hi Doreen: Thanks for your response. From how we've been trained with Jerry, Building Rapport is what the pre-talk is for before the first session. So that both of you are on the same page and there are no misperceptions about hypnosis and to clear up any fears the client may have, we talk for about 30 minutes or more on what's in the conscious and subconscious minds, how they function, what hypnosis is and isn't, how it works, what we can do for the client, and what their part in the process is to be successful. So, basically our pretalk clears up fears and misperceptions, establishes credibility and rapport, enhances the imagination and creates mental expectancy (what the mind expects to happen tends to be realized), and then get the verbal contract and a firm handshake. The contract is nothing more than "I will keep you physically safe and mentally safe, I will use those techniques which I have found in my training and experience to be the most beneficial for you. Your part of the contract is to let go with me, give me the first response that comes into your mind when I ask you a question--without analyzing or changing it." You know that lightning-fast response is from the subconsious mind. And keeping that 100% positive mental attitude that it WILL work for you--you know it, you believe it, and you expect it. You know that Thought is the most powerful thing in the world. If they have the positive mental expectancy, they will have positive change. Then we do the interview where we get the details of why they are in your office, some history about family life, any traumas, and details of what they feel when the unwanted behavior occurs. I set them up in a scene, situation or event where those feelings were prominent, intensify them and regress. Then I can do the inner child work, change perception of the initial event, reframe, and future pace. Most of the time I use chair therapy and major forgiveness work, and then forgiveness of self and building up unconditional love of self. I do a lot of releasing of negative feelings (what we call pillow pounding) and also use parts therapy quite frequently. Seems to work for me, but I figure anyone can use any technique they prefer as long as they are giving their best to the client and the client is getting the expected result.
All the best to you, Karen

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Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on November 23, 2009 at 8:15pm

Dear Karen,

Everything you wrote here is not any different from what I have learned...

And I have nothing against regression, my point is different, If you build a rapport and see that your client is ill, "suffering from depression", you just don't do regression.

Again; Depression must be taken very seriously, since people with depression can gain more weight, lose weight drastically and become even more sick, such as becoming suicidal, and even suffer from a deeper emotional issues.

I am sorry, but I work directly with doctors, and I see clients who are patients in the medical office I am at, and some that I have known did see other hypnotherapists who did "regression to cause" and as a result, they become paranoid, suicidal, some even needed to be kept in a mental intuitions..

Now, I am not a doctor, but I know what I am talking about, and you may say, well they were not a good hypnotherapist, and I will say, yes they were, I personally spoke to them, and I have learned that this is what they have learned, is that enough for a rapport, NO!

Not saying every client will be affected in a negative way, but it is enough to have one client in a million that will have a negative result just for being careless, and then hypnosis will get a bad reputation, and we all will suffer from it as well, so why not be cautious, and learn more about depression, before doing "regression to a cause", trust me, this can help anyone from preventing more emotional hardship, That's all I am saying, again I am not saying that regression is bad, I do it, but there is a reason when you do it and why you do not do it.

Beside I am not here to be right or to tell anyone what to do, I am only sharing what I know...

Respectfully, Doreen Cohanim C.Ht

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Permalink Reply by Fable Goodman on November 23, 2009 at 8:44pm

Thanak yu Doreen,

I think you have made most of the points I would have made.

I will just add,
To think that a thirty minute pretalk
gives you all you need,
to progress to using your favourite technique,
at the expence of the clients wellbeing,
is to say the least,
short sighted, and misinformed.

Love and hugs,

Fable

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Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on November 23, 2009 at 9:03pm

Fable, Thank you for acknowledging my point, Knowledge and practice is more powerful then being Right, and I am never Right .

And I would never what to be responsible in causing any harm to any ones well being, my mission is to help and heal others in the best way I can, and If I don't know, I don't touch it, or even If I do, I still make sure I have as much help as possible.

Clients well being always come first.

Doreen Cohanim C.Ht,HBCE

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Permalink Reply by Kathleen Hanover on November 24, 2009 at 10:13am

As a client, I find it fascinating to watch hypnotherapists debate these things. Most of the time I don't understand what you're talking about, but I still find the philosophical differences very interesting. :)

I can very much relate to the client in this scenario...at first I thought I wanted to work with a hypnotherapist to lose weight. And at first, I did lose weight. I was a compulsive eater and when I was growing up, food was a reward and a weapon that always had some kind of emotional content. It was never just food.

Working with the hypnotherapist allowed me to remove the emotional content from food, so I stopped eating compulsively, and I lost some weight. And then I gained it back plus more, because I stopped exercising. My subconscious is no fool.

I was working on other things along the way, and discovered I have big-time secondary gain from being fat. I am consciously very aware of what my secondary gain is. I don't know exactly where it originates. If it's true that I have to relive the potentially really bad things I've forgotten in order to finally lose this weight, then I'm probably going to choose to stay fat, to be honest. I'm not happy about it, but I'm used to it.

I can't think of a situation in which I'd agree to relive a buried and forgotten trauma in order to lose weight. Speaking as a client, that is a really, really hard sell. I've been this way my whole adult life, I'm used to it, and can't visualize being any different. And what if you do make me relive the trauma and then can't make it go away again? So then I'd be fat AND traumatized? No thanks, I'd rather be fat than take that chance.

So I guess I'm hoping that the "regression to cause" advocates are wrong, and there's something else I can do to deal with my primary/secondary gain without having to know exactly where it came from!

Fable Goodman said:

Thanak yu Doreen,

I think you have made most of the points I would have made.

I will just add,
To think that a thirty minute pretalk
gives you all you need,
to progress to using your favourite technique,
at the expence of the clients wellbeing,
is to say the least,
short sighted, and misinformed.

Love and hugs,

Fable

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Shirley R. Patterson on November 24, 2009 at 7:02pm

I have used Regression to Cause with most of my weight loss clients. However, it is not until the fourth, fifth, or sixth session. Many experienced a "heavy weight being lifted" after the session. No one has ever said they were traumatized by the regression. As a Counselor, I also use Gestalt with some clients and achieve the same result. Each client is unique, as is their "issue". So Sue, you will have to assess your client and her progress in order to know which technique is employed when. I tell my clients (who knew someone who came to me), your "program" may not be the same as your friends. I utilize whatever technique is most relevant for the client and issue at hand.

Rapport building takes place throughout all the sessions, not just the initial session pre-talk. So be sure you are building rapport with each session. Keep reminding her that the two of you are working together.

Let us know how it turns out.

Shirley

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Permalink Reply by Lee Pelletier on November 24, 2009 at 7:44pm

Hi Kathleen:

I can understand your reluctance to work through issues with regression. You present an interesting set of dilemmas for we who strive to help people overcome their challenges and attain their goals. As some have said, the idea of regression to cause is that the response to trauma frequently yields a no-longer appropriate response to a trigger. Let's say you experienced something unpleasant when you were 4-10 years old (arbitrarily chosen examples. Your response to the "trigger" may have been appropriate for that age. Sometimes our responses get stuck at the age when the trigger was created. There can be great advantage in allowing a professional to help you bring your responses into line with your current level of maturity. I am not suggesting that it is necessary for you to re-experience the trauma but it may be valuable. I will also tell you that when you do decide to see what is going on, you will be glad you did. Sometimes things are hard to go through but add great value to our lives. I am going to assume you are going to a well trained hypnotist--someone who has taken the time and effort to learn to help people with issues like yours. Such a person can help you take your life to the places you really do want to go.

Kathleen Hanover said:

As a client, I find it fascinating to watch hypnotherapists debate these things. Most of the time I don't understand what you're talking about, but I still find the philosophical differences very interesting. :)

I can very much relate to the client in this scenario...at first I thought I wanted to work with a hypnotherapist to lose weight. And at first, I did lose weight. I was a compulsive eater and when I was growing up, food was a reward and a weapon that always had some kind of emotional content. It was never just food.

Working with the hypnotherapist allowed me to remove the emotional content from food, so I stopped eating compulsively, and I lost some weight. And then I gained it back plus more, because I stopped exercising. My subconscious is no fool.

I was working on other things along the way, and discovered I have big-time secondary gain from being fat. I am consciously very aware of what my secondary gain is. I don't know exactly where it originates. If it's true that I have to relive the potentially really bad things I've forgotten in order to finally lose this weight, then I'm probably going to choose to stay fat, to be honest. I'm not happy about it, but I'm used to it.

I can't think of a situation in which I'd agree to relive a buried and forgotten trauma in order to lose weight. Speaking as a client, that is a really, really hard sell. I've been this way my whole adult life, I'm used to it, and can't visualize being any different. And what if you do make me relive the trauma and then can't make it go away again? So then I'd be fat AND traumatized? No thanks, I'd rather be fat than take that chance.

So I guess I'm hoping that the "regression to cause" advocates are wrong, and there's something else I can do to deal with my primary/secondary gain without having to know exactly where it came from!

Fable Goodman said:

Thanak yu Doreen,

I think you have made most of the points I would have made.

I will just add,
To think that a thirty minute pretalk
gives you all you need,
to progress to using your favourite technique,
at the expence of the clients wellbeing,
is to say the least,
short sighted, and misinformed.

Love and hugs,

Fable

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on November 24, 2009 at 11:25pm

Thank you Shirley,

That is exactly what I am talking about, using regression may be helpful only after three to four or even six sessions, when nothing else worked.

Respectfully, Doreen Cohanim C.Ht

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Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on November 25, 2009 at 7:35am

I posted this in the http://www.hypnothoughts.com/group/rightmindtorightsize forum as an imagery tool, but I believe it is useful in certain cases as a "weight regression". Some clients have a resistance to achieving goal weight if they suffered negative states while at that weight, which this process can quickly reveal. Pay close attention to the client's response as the numbers decline. By using small increments you are better able to measure and control abreaction, which is one of the worrisome factors some hold about regression in general.

I like to have a client visualize themself in front of a full-size mirror, disrobed. After allowing plenty of time to digest the image, I begin a countdown from the current weight. I stop at 2, 5, or 10 lb increments, depending on the amount of excess weight carried, and ask how that looks and feels. We continue this process, taking note of how the client reacts to the changing image.

A lot is revealed, especially as we near the target weight. Sometimes the client is not yet happy at that weight and wants to continue down, even to what would be an unrealistic or unhealthy size. Sometimes the client gets very uncomfortable at certain weights before the target weight.

What's important is seeing if a client can actually imagine and believe in being a particular size and if there are associations that factor into success. This technique is a great one for helping to ascertain that.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on November 25, 2009 at 8:04am

Hi Sue,

I might tell the hypothetical client that although anything is possible - in my expert opinion it is her toxic emotions and feelings and suggest that she will begin to see her desired results as soon as she off-loads them and recommend a session dedicated to releasing her toxic emotions and feelings and helping her deeply appreciate the very real benefits and advantages of feeling and looking great --

Hint:
There are many ways to stroke a cat - but first you must earn the Cat's trust-- Being with a client, breathing with a client and giving your client your undivided attention is that best way I have found to develop rapport - which I strive to achieve during my initial contact and build upon during the intake/pre-talk -- Once in rapport with my client I share that I have many tools in my toolbox for helping people take charge of their weight and very briefly discuss them and ask my client to chose the approach that will be most effective in reaching their goals and consider their choice - the best way to go...

Michael E.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on November 25, 2009 at 8:20am

Hi Lee,

I always find your posts thought provoking and I like that-

Hi Kathleen,

I have found that simply interrupting patterns is enough to help people make the changes that they wish to make. However I would effectively and happily use a regressive approach if I thought that was consistent with a client's beliefs and expectations, but only in those cases. My problem with many regressionists is that regression to cause and fix seems to be the only tool in their toolboxes...

If I were assisting a client who shared your opinions and beliefs - I'd see it as an opportunity to put the emphasis on "seeing" herself - FEELING Better, looking better, having more energy and fun -- When the desired goal is bigger than the "so-called" gains -- change happens... Feeling attractive and desirable is the best desert...

Michael E.



Lee Pelletier said:

Hi Kathleen:
I can understand your reluctance to work through issues with regression. You present an interesting set of dilemmas for we who strive to help people overcome their challenges and attain their goals. As some have said, the idea of regression to cause is that the response to trauma frequently yields a no-longer appropriate response to a trigger. Let's say you experienced something unpleasant when you were 4-10 years old (arbitrarily chosen examples. Your response to the "trigger" may have been appropriate for that age. Sometimes our responses get stuck at the age when the trigger was created. There can be great advantage in allowing a professional to help you bring your responses into line with your current level of maturity. I am not suggesting that it is necessary for you to re-experience the trauma but it may be valuable. I will also tell you that when you do decide to see what is going on, you will be glad you did. Sometimes things are hard to go through but add great value to our lives. I am going to assume you are going to a well trained hypnotist--someone who has taken the time and effort to learn to help people with issues like yours. Such a person can help you take your life to the places you really do want to go.
Kathleen Hanover said:

As a client, I find it fascinating to watch hypnotherapists debate these things. Most of the time I don't understand what you're talking about, but I still find the philosophical differences very interesting. :)

I can very much relate to the client in this scenario...at first I thought I wanted to work with a hypnotherapist to lose weight. And at first, I did lose weight. I was a compulsive eater and when I was growing up, food was a reward and a weapon that always had some kind of emotional content. It was never just food. Working with the hypnotherapist allowed me to remove the emotional content from food, so I stopped eating compulsively, and I lost some weight. And then I gained it back plus more, because I stopped exercising. My subconscious is no fool.

I was working on other things along the way, and discovered I have big-time secondary gain from being fat. I am consciously very aware of what my secondary gain is. I don't know exactly where it originates. If it's true that I have to relive the potentially really bad things I've forgotten in order to finally lose this weight, then I'm probably going to choose to stay fat, to be honest. I'm not happy about it, but I'm used to it.

I can't think of a situation in which I'd agree to relive a buried and forgotten trauma in order to lose weight. Speaking as a client, that is a really, really hard sell. I've been this way my whole adult life, I'm used to it, and can't visualize being any different. And what if you do make me relive the trauma and then can't make it go away again? So then I'd be fat AND traumatized? No thanks, I'd rather be fat than take that chance.

So I guess I'm hoping that the "regression to cause" advocates are wrong, and there's something else I can do to deal with my primary/secondary gain without having to know exactly where it came from!

Fable Goodman said:

Thanak yu Doreen,

I think you have made most of the points I would have made.
I will just add, To think that a thirty minute pretalk
gives you all you need,
to progress to using your favourite technique,
at the expence of the clients wellbeing,
is to say the least,
short sighted, and misinformed.

Love and hugs,

Fable

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on November 25, 2009 at 8:45am

Wow a lot of great responses on this thread. Weight MANAGEMENT is one of the most ubiquitous reasons folks want to come talk to us. Weight is however never the way that I personally work with them. As my friend Roger Moore says ... It.s never about the food. I agree with Fable... regressing to cause is like using a bazooka to do the job of a flyswatter. My first step is to use a technique I call negativity clearing to teach them a way to handle the negative memories in thier life. Its like clearing the ground to make room for the 'New You". I am a big fan of positive imagery. I teach them a bit about food choices and exercise and then begin the work of Body Sculpting and helping them to build an image of what they will look like in the future, Therefore I am always future pacing them one baby step at a time. It works for me and I have seen some good results.

Hugh Cole
The pretty goodest hypnotist on the planet,

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