What angle to come from???

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on July 16, 2010 at 9:34pm

I ask them directly, how can I help you?

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Permalink Reply by Antoine Pruyssers on July 16, 2010 at 9:36pm

First of all, you should charge anyone, that takes up time and effort in a professional setting.
This tells them that they need to take the best out of what they paid fore, and gives them a reason to overthink what you tell them. Furthermore, it tells them, you are confident enough, to ask money, because you are a good hypnotist.
Second of all, be firm and authoritarian, with patients, this gives them less room, to make excuses to hold on to the problem, and makes it hard to back-talk.
I know it's hard to be firm, but clients don't visit you to be sweet, they visit you, to solve their problem, and if that means being confronting and directive.

Remember: your attitude is the best way of therapy, lead by example!!!

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Permalink Reply by amber lee poole on July 16, 2010 at 10:19pm

Thanx John... i did!!! Always the first thing i say to anyone after meeting them of course! I asked many many many times! hahahaha

And Antoine... i agree with you totally but it is not my clinic, and is a client of the owner and it just felt right to do it the way i did.... she got very confronting with me and i just tried to keep the situation calm as i didn't want it back lashing through out the clinic... i had to make the right judgement call for the situation - if it was my own clinic would have handled differently.

What if a client becomes argumentative and starts asking your qualifications, etc? Am i just to dismiss them straight away and let them leave angry and unhappy??? I could have very well let her leave at that moment, but i diffused the situation and she left happy feeling she had gotten something out of it... the above by the way is a question.. not me being sensitive!

So, once again John, what do you do if you keep asking the question for 45mins and not getting anything??? Each time i got firm and authoritarian with her she got defensive and angry - i have never had this before!!! Believe me, i get to the point with my clients - maybe i just have to rack this one up to experience and realise that sometimes i'm going to get this and let them go?????

Overall i'm happy with how it all ended, considering my restraints - i remained sure and firm of who i am and what i do and she left happy and ready for our session next week - but i would love to know if anyone has had this happen to them and how they dealt with it....

Oh, i deeply appreciate your replies by the way!

Amber xox

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Permalink Reply by Ricky Strode on July 16, 2010 at 10:52pm

I would of just put her in a trance/hypnosis/altered state. Alot of times it is much easier than one would think. Double and even triple communication is much easier than most think, but people have to practice it first. If they don't let me in the front door I find a way in whether I have to go through the back door, basement window and so on, but I find a way and they show me exactly where to go by what they say. If they are nerveous I use it, if they are scared I'll do werid things, but I always start with a plan and then go deeper, because things start where they start, but the how and the where and your going is the question is it not? I'm not asking people to just go deeper and deeper still, but only as fast as you can decide how your choices and thoughts. I usually start by saying to people' Hi very hi my name is Ricky Strode and it is ok to go sit down and lets talk before your going into a trance deeper and deeper still, but first I want to know things, because it is important to know things isn't it, because it lets you know where your about to go and do it well and even better isn't it?" Things start in peoples mind and we all learn things, but that isn't as important as the things we will learn, because we already know the other thing, but people have to start with a good feeling if your going to enjoy it and even more. Things don't have to be complex or even simple, but it depends on the task on wherther it should be or not isn't or not? When people start with good thoughts, you know and begin to let the good feeling spin faster and faster still, but only as it is begining to get bigger and even more vivd at the same time and only at the rate and speed and how the rythum of your breathing in and out and doubling only into a relaxing and thought filled idea and slowly, but only as slowly or as fast as you need it to be to just go through what you can do and play out some possible thing and go though them until you find a few useful ones and deeper because people start there and with pleasure, because it all starts there.

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Permalink Reply by amber lee poole on July 16, 2010 at 11:14pm

Ricky!!!

Thank you! So much i can take from that....

Amber :)

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Permalink Reply by Antoine Pruyssers on July 16, 2010 at 11:26pm

"What if a client becomes argumentative and starts asking your qualifications, etc? Am i just to dismiss them straight away and let them leave angry and unhappy??? I could have very well let her leave at that moment, but i diffused the situation and she left happy feeling she had gotten something out of it."

Well Amber, you seem to have done a good job then, and it seems you have the confidence that your approach seems to have been the best. What was your original question again?

To answer your second question:
Why would my suggestions lead to the client becoming argumentative?
You can easily "disarm" that sort of attitude, by mentioning something like:
"I'm so glad you are such a smart person, reflecting on things as well as you do, because I know you'll see the point in what I'm going to say next......"

The next time a client is easily taking offense, tell them a Ericksonian tale!

This all reminds me of something I've heard a friend of mine say;
This friend, let's call him Jake, told me he went to a psychologist, and got the woman confused, and that the woman was a bad therapist.
Jake told me, he wouldn't let that quack in his head, until she passed his tests, getting past his smarts.
To get him to stop being offensive and get him to give her a chance I asked him:
"Why go to a psychologist, when all you want to do is just display your intellect? Wouldn't it be better to do that in school, where you have all these teachers, you don't have to pay for the time you spend on pestering them?"
He told me to go with him to the next meeting with the therapist, and judge for myself.
The next time he went, he picked me up, and I told him, that I would be as objective as I could be, but that wouldn't always have to be what he agreed with.
We went into the woman's office and he started to open up a bit, and she seemed happily surprised.
He told her about what we spoke about and that his attitude may have been triggered by all the other therapists that "failed" him, so he wanted to make sure she was the right one, by testing her insights.
I went out for a while, and when he got out of his session, I went over to his therapist, and gave her my card, and told her to call me, to get past his "barriers".
She called 2 days later, and I told her, that we wouldn't discuss her sessions with Jake, but that I would give her some information to do with as she liked.
Then I told her, that my friend needed to gain more self-confidence before being able to talk about himself, and the best way she could do that was by giving him subtle compliments related to what he had already discussed with her.
The next appointment he had, he called me afterwards and told me she told him a story, of a man, that Jake reminded her of.
The story was about a man, who was stranded on a small island because of a shipwreck.
The man was really smart, like Jake, and good at building stuff, so he built a cabin on the island that was so very comfortable, because he had built it to serve him in all the luxury he wanted, and the only thing he missed was the contact with other people.
The man spent months working on the house, so he wouldn't have to think of how lonely he was, and he thought of all these very complex constructions, and built them into the house, and even found a way to use natural resources, to make fuel for his lamps.
After about 4 months he got spotted, by a marine vessel, but he didn't want to come aboard, because he didn't want to leave his well built house on the island.
The captain told him they had no time to stay and convince him, and had to get back to doing their original tasks, and left him on the island, with some supplies.
The man used the supplies and after they were done, he started to get mad at the captain, for leaving him on that blasted island he had come to hate so much.
After a few days an other vessel came, with some fishermen, that got told by the captain of the marine-ship that there was a man stranded on the island, but had a hard time saying farewell to his self-built cabin.
When the man heard that, he got so mad, he started throwing rocks at the fisherman, who got on his boat and sailed away.
After 2 weeks the family of the man came in a helicopter, and asked him to come home with them, but the man asked them:"Why didn't you come sooner? Why wait, until they could take away his "new home", to pick him up?"
The man's father who was not only a smart man, but also very wise, told him, they would come again and again, to visit him, and eventually pick him up, when he was ready.
Because a helicopter was a very expansive thing to rent, they could only visit him once a month, but that didn't seem to bother the man.
After a few days a storm broke out, and swept the cabin off the island, and left the man broken in the wild by himself.
The man was so tired that building a new one would be too much, and he built a small shack to keep him dry and covered.
The next day the fisher-boat that came there earlier seemed to have stopped there to repair some damages on the ship, that they acquired in the storm. The man came to them, and asked if he could go with them to the mainland.
The fisherman, told him to get lost, because he wouldn't help a man, that would throw rocks at him.
The man was ashamed and got depressed, and got back to his shack to sleep.
After 4 weeks of living under bad conditions the helicopter of his family landed and he got on board even before they stopped the rotors.
His father asked him:"What made you change your mind?"
and the man replied:"My home was destroyed, and I haven't the energy to build a new one"
The father looked at him, and said:"My dear son, how could you call that piece of wood your home, when there is no-one to talk to? It seems to me, you have been fleeing from your loneliness only to gain more of it"

After Jake had heard this story, he suddenly started relating to the story and opened up to the therapist, because he too wanted to connect.

I hope this helps.

Warm regards
Antoine

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Permalink Reply by Ricky Strode on July 17, 2010 at 12:51am

Anytime. Helping people is what I do and I love to do it.

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Permalink Reply by amber lee poole on July 17, 2010 at 1:26am

Hey everyone,

Well amazing what a few hours, reflection and advice can do :)

Now i look back on the session, she was telling me what she was there for "deep seated issues from her childhood causing her to be overweight". I heard it but rather than go there first, i went straight to "so how are you going to change your eating and exercise, blah, blah, blah" due to the fact that i have had a few clients lately that seem to think as hypnotherapists we can wave a magic wand and they will magically lose the extra 100kgs they are carrying....

So, after reflection, i wasn't really "listening" to her... i was "hearing" but not addressing the first issue... I also am on a bit of a crusade about how we create our own lives, etc, and taking responsibility is so important.... this works well with my clients and helps them out of blaming someone else for their issues BUT i think today, somehow, i skipped a few steps :(

She did say to me that she was on the defensive the minute she walked in the room so i think the whole "feel" was off anyway, and i was maybe trying too hard as i already knew she had been unimpressed by other therapists....but still, i usually am able to give excellent service regardless.

I have learnt something today - if anyone has anything to add to this it would be awesome!

Thanx for all the input already, and i truly believed that today's session had a lesson in it for me - wisdom always pops up when doing the dishes! hahaahaha

Amber xox

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Permalink Reply by Fable Goodman on July 17, 2010 at 2:42am

Hello Amber,

The only thing I am going to add, is well done, for being able and willing to step back, and examine your own part in this, and then to share it with the community with such a degree of openness and honesty. A good model for all of us!

It does seem indeed to have been a learning experience, and I am sure that many others here can resonate with that.

It sounds like (amongst other things you were mirroring her defensiveness quite well.

The dance has begun.

I am sure you will move on to the next stage with more elegance.

Please feel free to come and wash my dishes if it helps.
I am reminded of this Charming Tale from my 2008 blog.
http://www.hypnothoughts.com/profiles/blogs/a-charming-tale-for-a

Love and hugs,

Fable

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Permalink Reply by amber lee poole on July 17, 2010 at 3:26am

Thank you Fable,

It means a lot to me to get a warm response from someone i respect :)

I do have one question: Should a therapist go down the path the client is suggesting? i.e. the deep seated issues with parent....?? Obviously I ask a lot of questions and get different angles to the issue, so if we (the therapist) see that maybe the problem (don't like saying that) lies elsewhere, should we gently move or open the clients mind to that or should i simply go with what the client thinks is the issue??

Funny, i haven't felt the need to even ask this question up til now...and my insight into this still feels that the parent thing is not what the main stumbling block is for this client....so, do i risk not getting a fulfilling result for the client by going down her path or do i follow all the clues and markers from other things that she discussed and try to open her mind a little more?

This has been eye opening and i'm realising just how unique and individual each case is. I think that for a while now i have been seeing the same kind of situations over and over: self esteem, smoking, weight, addictions, anxiety, etc... great results all round but i think this one has come to show me not to get too sure and comfortable or ALL KNOWING about what i'm doing - to keep that fresh outlook each time.

Please, anyone jump in if you have anything to add about whether to follow what is right in our face but what the client might not see and they want to go down another route.

Amber xox

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Permalink Reply by Kathleen Hanover on July 17, 2010 at 4:56am

Hi Amber,

I'm answering as a client.

As a client, it's not my job to know what my problem (underlying cause) is. All I know is the pain I'm in. Enough pain to reach out to a stranger to help me.

I may think I know what's causing it. I could be right, I could be wrong, but few of us are objective enough to be able to treat ourselves for our own problems. Clearly, if she could do this herself, and she were motivated enough to do so, she'd have done it by now.

It's your job as a therapist to be objective enough to observe your client and gather the information you need to determine the underlying cause of her pain, and then deal with it. (And the cause of her pain may not even be the childhood stuff...it may be her attitudes and judgments and storyline about the childhood stuff.)

Although it's not your client's job to know what her problem (underlying cause) is, it does seem as though she had a pretty good idea (childhood issues.)

I wonder if your client is like me. I'm an expert at losing weight. In fact, since I was about 12, I've lost hundreds and hundreds of pounds, over and over. As I said to the fantastic Roger Moore when I recently started working with him, I don't need to know how to lose weight. I don't need a "diet plan." My weight has almost nothing to do with what I eat. (Been there, done that, have clothing in three sizes to show for it.) What Roger is helping me to learn is that I'm not my body, being slim and attractive is safe and wonderful, and I don't need to camouflage myself in a fat suit anymore. (And what does that have to do with counting calories? Zero.)

If your client is savvy enough to realize that her weight has nothing to do with what she eats, and everything to do with a heavy psychic/emotional burden that's weighing her down, I imagine how she could have become extremely defensive the moment you started talking about food. Because you labeled yourself as "another so-called 'expert' who doesn't 'get it' and can't help me." It just took her an hour to tell you that (without using those words). You you, it looked like "being argumentative" and "being analytical."

Of course, the awesome news is that you're savvy enough to take ownership of your part of what happened, and you do have the skills to help her deal with releasing her psychic weight (which will allow her to release excess body weight).

I hope my rambling was helpful. :)

Kathleen








amber lee poole said:

Thank you Fable,

It means a lot to me to get a warm response from someone i respect :)

I do have one question: Should a therapist go down the path the client is suggesting? i.e. the deep seated issues with parent....?? Obviously I ask a lot of questions and get different angles to the issue, so if we (the therapist) see that maybe the problem (don't like saying that) lies elsewhere, should we gently move or open the clients mind to that or should i simply go with what the client thinks is the issue??

Funny, i haven't felt the need to even ask this question up til now...and my insight into this still feels that the parent thing is not what the main stumbling block is for this client....so, do i risk not getting a fulfilling result for the client by going down her path or do i follow all the clues and markers from other things that she discussed and try to open her mind a little more?

This has been eye opening and i'm realising just how unique and individual each case is. I think that for a while now i have been seeing the same kind of situations over and over: self esteem, smoking, weight, addictions, anxiety, etc... great results all round but i think this one has come to show me not to get too sure and comfortable or ALL KNOWING about what i'm doing - to keep that fresh outlook each time.

Please, anyone jump in if you have anything to add about whether to follow what is right in our face but what the client might not see and they want to go down another route.

Amber xox

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Permalink Reply by Graham Old on July 17, 2010 at 7:24am

Amber,

I think you did a great job. And I'm not at all surprised to see that you've learned from this.

Kathleen, nice comment. Thanks.

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