the Free Hypnosis Social Network
What is trance?
Every now and then I encounter people who have varying opinions of what trance is and how it works. Just today I have read here where people think sleep is trance, or think that hypnosis doesn't need to involve trance at all.
So just what is trance?
In my formal training, I was taught "trance begins with 3 words....close...your...eyes." I have since found out that I was given misinformation about what trance was, and so that started me questioning everything, doing my own research, and writing a book about it, but that's another story.
Needless to say, that my own personal findings indicated that trance is a natural state for us as a species. Since the analytical mind can only focus on one thing at a time, we have to use a trance state to be able to multi-task.
Trance is simply a state where the reactive mind (subconscious) automatically reacts to outside input. Hypnosis takes advantage of this by realizing the outside input can be in the form of a suggestion.
To me; hypnosis is simply the means to induce a purposeful trance state. So it doesn't matter what method you use, if you have induced a trance state in someone, you have hypnotized them.
In our everyday lives, we are well used to using trance states with the conscious mind very active and aware.
Trance has nothing to do with if the eyes are open or shut, if you are nervous or relaxed, or anything else like that. The reason we use commands like sleep, relax, etc. is because for the most part, the subject is very familiar with the terms and understands how to automatically react to them, and it turns the focus of their mind further inside.
When ever our conscious mind is focused on something, especially on the inside of the body, a trance state HAS TO exist in order for us to keep maintaining.
A trance state does not bypass the critical factor unless the magnitude of the trance state (depth?) is sufficient to shut down that filter. We refer to that magnitude of trance as somnambulism, and during somnambulism our ability to determine what is real and true is impaired (what we call "the critical factor") which is why we get the trance effects and results we get with it.
I realize that we all have our models of hypnosis and trance, this is mine, and I would love to hear how you define trance.
John
So just what is trance?
In my formal training, I was taught "trance begins with 3 words....close...your...eyes." I have since found out that I was given misinformation about what trance was, and so that started me questioning everything, doing my own research, and writing a book about it, but that's another story.
Needless to say, that my own personal findings indicated that trance is a natural state for us as a species. Since the analytical mind can only focus on one thing at a time, we have to use a trance state to be able to multi-task.
Trance is simply a state where the reactive mind (subconscious) automatically reacts to outside input. Hypnosis takes advantage of this by realizing the outside input can be in the form of a suggestion.
To me; hypnosis is simply the means to induce a purposeful trance state. So it doesn't matter what method you use, if you have induced a trance state in someone, you have hypnotized them.
In our everyday lives, we are well used to using trance states with the conscious mind very active and aware.
Trance has nothing to do with if the eyes are open or shut, if you are nervous or relaxed, or anything else like that. The reason we use commands like sleep, relax, etc. is because for the most part, the subject is very familiar with the terms and understands how to automatically react to them, and it turns the focus of their mind further inside.
When ever our conscious mind is focused on something, especially on the inside of the body, a trance state HAS TO exist in order for us to keep maintaining.
A trance state does not bypass the critical factor unless the magnitude of the trance state (depth?) is sufficient to shut down that filter. We refer to that magnitude of trance as somnambulism, and during somnambulism our ability to determine what is real and true is impaired (what we call "the critical factor") which is why we get the trance effects and results we get with it.
I realize that we all have our models of hypnosis and trance, this is mine, and I would love to hear how you define trance.
John
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on -
Walt and Don....
I think you've hit the nail directly on the head here, Too many "hypnotists" I have met put value on a certain induction style, a certain script as the "be all or end all" in hypnosis. There are(perhaps self agrandizing is good adjective here) hypnotists who name and re name induction styles in a manner designed to link themselves to legendary figures in hypnosis history. That obsures the fact that there is an underlying fundemental "hypnotic process" going on that is TRUE over any induction style. There are fundemental metaphors that are TRUE through almost every reporting problem we see. on a daily basis.
Of course... If the induction wasn't named the "Geoge Washington-Albert Einstien-Abraham Lincoln-Alfred E Neuman-Dallia Lama - 6.7 word butterfly arm tug" you couldn't sell it as unique and DVD sales would drop. I am waiting for someone to differentiate between whether one flares the left nostril or the right nostril when gazing intently into the subjects eyes so we can add the nostril flare eye gaze to the list of "must learn" inductions.
Seriously...There are fundemental trance processes that form the base of everything we do. Learn those and the mechanics come a whole lot easier. We are biped motivated trance machines moving through the world one trance at a time. It;s how we learn. It's how we survive.
Hugh Cole
making them Dizzy one post at a time.
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Permalink Reply by Walt Potter on
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As a student I look forward to understanding your last paragraph really well. I recognize this process from my teaching mathematics. Much of mathematical problem solving uses the same basic ideas; sometimes with brilliant deviations.
Please don't tell me what the patterns are! Now back to my morning reading of Elman and Gibbons; a nice tandem read.
Hugh Cole said:Walt and Don....
I think you've hit the nail directly on the head here, Too many "hypnotists" I have met put value on a certain induction style, a certain script as the "be all or end all" in hypnosis. There are(perhaps self agrandizing is good adjective here) hypnotists who name and re name induction styles in a manner designed to link themselves to legendary figures in hypnosis history. That obsures the fact that there is an underlying fundemental "hypnotic process" going on that is TRUE over any induction style. There are fundemental metaphors that are TRUE through almost every reporting problem we see. on a daily basis. Of course... If the induction wasn't named the "Geoge Washington-Albert Einstien-Abraham Lincoln-Alfred E Neuman-Dallia Lama - 6.7 word butterfly arm tug" you couldn't sell it as unique and DVD sales would drop. I am waiting for someone to differentiate between whether one flares the left nostril or the right nostril when gazing intently into the subjects eyes so we can add the nostril flare eye gaze to the list of "must learn" inductions. Seriously...There are fundemental trance processes that form the base of everything we do. Learn those and the mechanics come a whole lot easier. We are biped motivated trance machines moving through the world one trance at a time. It;s how we learn. It's how we survive.
Hugh Cole
making them Dizzy one post at a time.
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Permalink Reply by GIL BOYNE on
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Hello Hugh, Well Done !---- That's telling it like it really is! ---GB
Hugh Cole said:Walt and Don....
I think you've hit the nail directly on the head here, Too many "hypnotists" I have met put value on a certain induction style, a certain script as the "be all or end all" in hypnosis. There are(perhaps self agrandizing is good adjective here) hypnotists who name and re name induction styles in a manner designed to link themselves to legendary figures in hypnosis history. That obsures the fact that there is an underlying fundemental "hypnotic process" going on that is TRUE over any induction style. There are fundemental metaphors that are TRUE through almost every reporting problem we see. on a daily basis. Of course... If the induction wasn't named the "Geoge Washington-Albert Einstien-Abraham Lincoln-Alfred E Neuman-Dallia Lama - 6.7 word butterfly arm tug" you couldn't sell it as unique and DVD sales would drop. I am waiting for someone to differentiate between whether one flares the left nostril or the right nostril when gazing intently into the subjects eyes so we can add the nostril flare eye gaze to the list of "must learn" inductions. Seriously...There are fundemental trance processes that form the base of everything we do. Learn those and the mechanics come a whole lot easier. We are biped motivated trance machines moving through the world one trance at a time. It;s how we learn. It's how we survive.
Hugh Cole
making them Dizzy one post at a time.
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All,
Many good things going on here and I'm learning a lot. So my comments below are about me trying to learn as opposed to speaking with any kind of knowledge.
I'd like to make a couple of definitions. For me a definition has no content. It simply limits the meaning of the words I want to use. If the definitions happen to be useful in understanding "reality", all the better.
(T) Trance is a state of mind. So we're always in some trance(state). On this page let's allow the words trance and state of mind to mean the same thing.
Trances have qualities, some are useful for some good things. Maybe the word trance gets in our way if we make it different from other states of mind.
I want to take the point of view that hypnosis has some utility. Doing hypnosis is a goal directed activity.
(HT) Hypnotic Trance is a state of mind where one accepts suggestions. Deep hypnotic trances are in effect when the usual critical thought patterns are more suspended. One is more prone to accept suggestions.
One is always, to some degree, in a hypnotic trance. The word suggestion is a nominalization of suggest. There are two involved; one who suggests, one who accepts the suggestion; and the suggestion. Thus rapport is important. Of course the two may be one and we have self hypnosis. The key concept here is suggestibility. Given the mind-body connection we may expect to see physical manifestations of a deep hypnotic trance.
(HTI) Hypnotic Trance Induction is a process that deepens the hypnotic trance, making the subject more likely to accept the target suggestion. (I've been told that Albert Einstein's sister once said that a hypnotic trance should be as deep as necessary, not deeper.) Often one starts with suggestions that are easy to accept, chaining them together until the desired state is reached. At each step one hopes to reduce the influence of the critical thought processes. The more one accepts, the deeper one goes and.... Why this chaining is effective is interesting. Pointing out to the subject that they are going into a deeper hypnotic trance is useful. Confusion is useful in deepening the hypnotic trance. (Often confused, I'm often in a hypnotic trance.)
It may be that there are different hypnotic trances, and different inductions lead to those different states, allowing different utilization. In one case a rapid induction may be called for, in another a metaphoric induction might be useful.
How does one measure the quality of an induction? Probably depends on the goal. There's probably not a best one. However, having a best one would be a nice surprise.
Well I think I understand more now. However a friend of mine believes that our intelligence is inversely proportional to the size of the group we're in. When where alone we're smart, when there are others around to point out our errors...
I'm by myself right now, about to join 5000. Let me know,
Walt
(A little short in the tooth in this business.)
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Permalink Reply by Don on -
What do you think of this one, folks? Lynn and Kirsch (2006, p. 44) state: "The idea that hypnosis is a trance state may be the most pernicious of popular ideas about hypnosis. Decades of research have failed to confirm the hypothesis that responses to suggestion are due to an altered state of consciousness, and as a result, this hypothesis has been abandoned by most researchers in the field (see Kirsch & LYnn, 1995). Many knowledgeable scholars either reject the use of the term trance as misleading or use it in a sufficiently broad sense to include such commonplace experiences as being absorbed in an interesting movie, conversation, or daydream. Nevertheless the idea of trance is the most commonly held view of hypnosis among the general public and is even retained by some clinicians and researchers. . . .
"Countering the idea that hypnosis is a trance state allows the patient to interpret relaxed involvement as evidence that the induction was successful, which thereby takes the pressure off of the patient to experience a trance and facilitates response to suggestion. Lynn et al. (2002) found that participants informed that responding to hypnosis involved entering a trance were less suggestible than were participants informed that responding to hypnosis involved their active cooperation." (p.45).
References
Kirsch, I., & Lynn, S. J. (1995). The altered state of hypnosis: Changes in the theroretical landscape. American Psychologist, 50, 846-858.
Lynn , S. J., & Kirsch, I. (2006). Essentials of clinical hypnosis: An evidence-based approach. Washington, DC: American Psychological Association.
Lynn, S. J., Vanderhoff, H., Schindler, K., & Stafford, J. (2002). The effects of an induction and defining hypnosis as "a trance" vs. cooperation: Hypnotic suggestibility and performance standards. American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis, 44, 231-240.
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Don,
So putting definitions aside, using the word trace gets in the way of an induction. Hypnosis is not a trance state. In this business, the words and the meaning the subject attaches to them are important. What we say to the client sets up expectations. The client will try(we hope) to meet those expectations. So when we tell the client about what to expect, we should describe the state we want the client to attain. Maybe we don't tell them what to expect.
So I(client) ask hypnotist "What is the state of hypnosis and how will we know when I'm in that state?". Can the hypnotist answer this question directly? Should he? And if so, what does she say?
This discussion is really helping me to understand.
Thanks, Walt
Don Gibbons, Ph.D. said:Trance, schmance. Lynn and Kirsch (2006, p. 44) state: "The idea that hypnosis is a trance state may be the most pernicious of popular ideas about hypnosis. Decades of research have failed to confirm the hypothesis that responses to suggestion are due to an altered state of consciousness, and as a result, this hypothesis has been abandoned by most researchers in the field (see Kirsch & LYnn, 1995). Many knowledgeable scholars either reject the use of the term trance as misleading or use it in a sufficiently broad sense to include such commonplace experiences as being absorbed in an interesting movie, conversation, or daydream. Nevertheless the idea of trance is the most commonly held view of hypnosis among the general public and is even retained by some clinicians and researchers. . . .
"Countering the idea that hypnosis is a trance state allows the patient to interpret relaxed involvement as evidence that the induction was successful, which thereby takes the pressure off of the patient to experience a trance and facilitates response to suggestion. Lynn et al. (2002) found that participants informed that responding to hypnosis involved entering a trance were less suggestible than were participants informed that responding to hypnosis involved their active cooperation." (p.45).
References
Kirsch, I., & Lynn, S. J. (1995). The altered state of hypnosis: Changes in the theroretical landscape. American Psychologist, 50, 846-858.
Lynn , S. J., & Kirsch, I. (2006). Essentials of clinical hypnosis: An evidence-based approach. Washington, DC: American Psychological Association.
Lynn, S. J., Vanderhoff, H., Schindler, K., & Stafford, J. (2002). The effects of an induction and defining hypnosis as "a trance" vs. cooperation: Hypnotic suggestibility and performance standards. American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis, 44, 231-240.
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Permalink Reply by Don on
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Hi Walt,
I don't want to put words in Steve Lynn's mouth. (He said it, I didn't,) But I think he's trying to deal with what Harry Arons used to call the "I don't think I was hypnotized syndrome." There are, as we all know, a heck of a lot of people who don't feel any different at the conclusion of an induction than they did before.
I like to describe hypnosis as a system of imagination training, and provide concrete examples of how many people can use their minds in ways that they don't stop to think about -- such as not hearing their mother's voice calling them in for dinner when they were children. (Most people nod their head in agreement that they have experienced this too.) Then, when I provide the induction, they may feel different or not, to the extent that they are able. With hyperempiria, I simply go in the opposite direction. It's all in the eye of the beholder.
Lately, I've also tended to use hyperempiria as synonymous with a high degree of involvement with suggestion, akin to a mystical experience, which can be arrived at by either a hyperempiric induction or traditional hypnotic induction if the partner is responsive enough. More on this after I've had a few more clients.
Don
Walt Potter said:Don,
So putting definitions aside, using the word trace gets in the way of an induction. Hypnosis is not a trance state. In this business, the words and the meaning the subject attaches to them are important. What we say to the client sets up expectations. The client will try(we hope) to meet those expectations. So when we tell the client about what to expect, we should describe the state we want the client to attain. Maybe we don't tell them what to expect. So I(client) ask hypnotist "What is the state of hypnosis and how will we know when I'm in that state?". Can the hypnotist answer this question directly? Should he? And if so, what does she say?
This discussion is really helping me to understand.
Thanks, Walt
Don Gibbons, Ph.D. said:Trance, schmance. Lynn and Kirsch (2006, p. 44) state: "The idea that hypnosis is a trance state may be the most pernicious of popular ideas about hypnosis. Decades of research have failed to confirm the hypothesis that responses to suggestion are due to an altered state of consciousness, and as a result, this hypothesis has been abandoned by most researchers in the field (see Kirsch & LYnn, 1995). Many knowledgeable scholars either reject the use of the term trance as misleading or use it in a sufficiently broad sense to include such commonplace experiences as being absorbed in an interesting movie, conversation, or daydream. Nevertheless the idea of trance is the most commonly held view of hypnosis among the general public and is even retained by some clinicians and researchers. . . .
"Countering the idea that hypnosis is a trance state allows the patient to interpret relaxed involvement as evidence that the induction was successful, which thereby takes the pressure off of the patient to experience a trance and facilitates response to suggestion. Lynn et al. (2002) found that participants informed that responding to hypnosis involved entering a trance were less suggestible than were participants informed that responding to hypnosis involved their active cooperation." (p.45). References Kirsch, I., & Lynn, S. J. (1995). The altered state of hypnosis: Changes in the theroretical landscape. American Psychologist, 50, 846-858.
Lynn , S. J., & Kirsch, I. (2006). Essentials of clinical hypnosis: An evidence-based approach. Washington, DC: American Psychological Association.
Lynn, S. J., Vanderhoff, H., Schindler, K., & Stafford, J. (2002). The effects of an induction and defining hypnosis as "a trance" vs. cooperation: Hypnotic suggestibility and performance standards. American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis, 44, 231-240.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on
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Walt
Words are INDEED extremely important to what the client and, more importantly the Hypnotist perceives, For my own Model I like to think of trance as a state, or more importantly like a series of states. and hypnosis as the process that accesses those states. To a mathamatican I would say Trance is like an Eigenvector { trance(a), trance(b)...} and Hypnosis is the transform function operating on the vector. You don't need the function to have the vector exist and different functions access and change differant coordinates of the vector.
Don's view which I like very much is like a assigning an expectancy vector to the coordinate of the Eigenvector called "imaginative involvement". As you drive the Matrix in the direction of increased (intensified) imaginative involvement , quality of trance and emotional responsivness tend to peak.
This is not the bug eyed authoriarian approach we discussed on another (more heated) thread. Don's views allows for the subjects inate responses to be the driving force as the hypnotist suggestions becomes more of an envelope around the subjects responses.
Said differantly ... hyper emperia works great and opens doorways that are very helpful in both waking and "tranced out" forms of the hypnotic process.
Hugh Cole
Making them dizzy one post at a time.
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Don,
Thanks, the confusion is clearing. Imagination is something I know. With practice I hope to become more childlike.
My three year old grandson has a wonderful imagination. Sometimes he lets me come along.
What a joy.
Walt
Don Gibbons, Ph.D. said:Hi Walt,
I don't want to put words in Steve Lynn's mouth. (He said it, I didn't,) But I think he's trying to deal with what Harry Arons used to call the "I don't think I was hypnotized syndrome." There are, as we all know, a heck of a lot of people who don't feel any different at the conclusion of an induction than they did before.
I like to describe hypnosis as a system of imagination training, and provide concrete examples of how many people can use their minds in ways that they don't stop to think about -- such as not hearing their mother's voice calling them in for dinner when they were children. (Most people nod their head in agreement that they have experienced this too.) Then, when I provide the induction, they may feel different or not, to the extent that they are able. With hyperempiria, I simply go in the opposite direction. It's all in the eye of the beholder.
Lately, I've also tended to use hyperempiria as synonymous with a high degree of involvement with suggestion, akin to a mystical experience, which can be arrived at by either a hyperempiric induction or traditional hypnotic induction if the partner is responsive enough. More on this after I've had a few more clients.
Don
Walt Potter said:Don,
So putting definitions aside, using the word trace gets in the way of an induction. Hypnosis is not a trance state. In this business, the words and the meaning the subject attaches to them are important. What we say to the client sets up expectations. The client will try(we hope) to meet those expectations. So when we tell the client about what to expect, we should describe the state we want the client to attain. Maybe we don't tell them what to expect. So I(client) ask hypnotist "What is the state of hypnosis and how will we know when I'm in that state?". Can the hypnotist answer this question directly? Should he? And if so, what does she say?
This discussion is really helping me to understand.
Thanks, Walt
Don Gibbons, Ph.D. said:Trance, schmance. Lynn and Kirsch (2006, p. 44) state: "The idea that hypnosis is a trance state may be the most pernicious of popular ideas about hypnosis. Decades of research have failed to confirm the hypothesis that responses to suggestion are due to an altered state of consciousness, and as a result, this hypothesis has been abandoned by most researchers in the field (see Kirsch & LYnn, 1995). Many knowledgeable scholars either reject the use of the term trance as misleading or use it in a sufficiently broad sense to include such commonplace experiences as being absorbed in an interesting movie, conversation, or daydream. Nevertheless the idea of trance is the most commonly held view of hypnosis among the general public and is even retained by some clinicians and researchers. . . .
"Countering the idea that hypnosis is a trance state allows the patient to interpret relaxed involvement as evidence that the induction was successful, which thereby takes the pressure off of the patient to experience a trance and facilitates response to suggestion. Lynn et al. (2002) found that participants informed that responding to hypnosis involved entering a trance were less suggestible than were participants informed that responding to hypnosis involved their active cooperation." (p.45). References Kirsch, I., & Lynn, S. J. (1995). The altered state of hypnosis: Changes in the theroretical landscape. American Psychologist, 50, 846-858.
Lynn , S. J., & Kirsch, I. (2006). Essentials of clinical hypnosis: An evidence-based approach. Washington, DC: American Psychological Association.
Lynn, S. J., Vanderhoff, H., Schindler, K., & Stafford, J. (2002). The effects of an induction and defining hypnosis as "a trance" vs. cooperation: Hypnotic suggestibility and performance standards. American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis, 44, 231-240.
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Hugh,
This is beautiful poetry!
I'm riding on a surface, watching the normals flow by, iteratively searching for the peak. The surface and I interact.
You've really triggered my imagination!
Rapid induction is finding and following a geodesic.
Walt
Hugh Cole said:Walt
Words are INDEED extremely important to what the client and, more importantly the Hypnotist perceives, For my own Model I like to think of trance as a state, or more importantly like a series of states. and hypnosis as the process that accesses those states. To a mathamatican I would say Trance is like an Eigenvector { trance(a), trance(b)...} and Hypnosis is the transform function operating on the vector. You don't need the function to have the vector exist and different functions access and change differant coordinates of the vector.
Don's view which I like very much is like a assigning an expectancy vector to the coordinate of the Eigenvector called "imaginative involvement". As you drive the Matrix in the direction of increased (intensified) imaginative involvement , quality of trance and emotional responsivness tend to peak.
This is not the bug eyed authoriarian approach we discussed on another (more heated) thread. Don's views allows for the subjects inate responses to be the driving force as the hypnotist suggestions becomes more of an envelope around the subjects responses.
Said differantly ... hyper emperia works great and opens doorways that are very helpful in both waking and "tranced out" forms of the hypnotic process.
Hugh Cole
Making them dizzy one post at a time.
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Permalink Reply by Fable Goodman on -
Walt Potter said:Hugh,
This is beautiful poetry!
I'm riding on a surface, watching the normals flow by, iteratively searching for the peak. The surface and I interact.
You've really triggered my imagination!
Rapid induction is finding and following a geodesic.
speaking of geodesics...
Buckminster Fuller once said to me...
"Fable you are a nice guy and I like you a lot, but I have this one piece of advice"
I said what's that Bucky?
and he said:
" for god sake stop name dropping!"
the funny thing was that Milton had said the same thing just a few days beforehand.
I am sure they were trying to tell me something,
but I havn't quite worked it out yet.
Love and hugs,
Fable
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Permalink Reply by Don on
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Hi Hugh,
One of the reasons that I like to write is it helps me to find out what I am thinking. (Hypnotists understand that.) One of the reasons I enjoy these discussions is that other people help me to find out what I am thinking. Thanks for showing me!
The Best Me Technique, however, loads multimodally, enabling us to drive the Eigenvector using a souped-up six-cylinder model powered by Belief systems, Emotions, Sensations and physical perceptions Thoughts and images, Motives, and Expectations.
Don
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