What is your experience working with clients who can't imagine things?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Chris Witherspoon on January 8, 2010 at 2:26pm

There is a difference between visualizing and imagining. I can imagine but I am very poor at visualizing. I can imagine my favorite beach but I can't say I see a picture of it in my mind. I have tried exercises to enhance my visualization but still it is more of a sense of how things are than a picture of how thing are. I can't really say that this is a bad thing or not. I really think it is something not to get hung up with.

Permalink Reply by James Malone on January 8, 2010 at 3:03pm

Chris, you hit the nail on the head, it really doesn't matter if someone doesn't get clear visual images unless they get hung up on it. So it really does come down to doing a good job educating the client during the pre-talk and as Michael E always reminds us, to get their imaginations fired up before the formal hypnotic work. Or otherwise they may get stuck with what the swami aptly describes as a "yearnng disability"

Chris Witherspoon said:

There is a difference between visualizing and imagining. I can imagine but I am very poor at visualizing. I can imagine my favorite beach but I can't say I see a picture of it in my mind. I have tried exercises to enhance my visualization but still it is more of a sense of how things are than a picture of how thing are. I can't really say that this is a bad thing or not. I really think it is something not to get hung up with.

Permalink Reply by Roger Moore on January 8, 2010 at 3:40pm

Maria - Many client can't imagine - that's OK - they will do fine. I often ask if they can "pretend". They don't have to see, or imagine or visualize. It's all OK.

Permalink Reply by Melissa J. Roth on January 8, 2010 at 4:24pm

In all the clients I have seen I have found 1 adult female who could not "imagine." I was stunned for a moment. But, when I asked her if she could "recall" certain things and she said "yes." So, we worked from recall instead of imagination. She got out of pain so I guess it was good enough.

Ian Jay said:

Roger

In my experience 'pretend' is effective for children, but for adults? I have never met anyone who truly lacks the ability to imagine.Were that to be the case, they are not suitable subjects for hypnotherapy, perhaps?

An interesting area to consider?

In the name of research, not disputation ...

Ian

Roger Moore, PhD said:

Maria - Many client can't imagine - that's OK - they will do fine. I often ask if they can "pretend". They don't have to see, or imagine or visualize. It's all OK.

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on January 8, 2010 at 4:31pm

Hi Ian,

"In my experience 'pretend' is effective for children, but for adults?"

Glancing at your profile - It's not clear just how much experience you have?

Be that as it may -- I have found that "Make Believe" is an effective alternative to "Pretend" --

The lesson here is that--- what really matters is what the client believes a word means and not what the real meaning of the word is.

Many clients and hypnotists incorrectly believe that if they don't see images in their mind they are unable to imagine and it could sabotage a session,
if a client gets caught up thinking about not being able to "imagine" instead of going with the flow. This is why it is helpful to clear this stuff up in your intake/pre-talk

Michael E.



Ian Jay said:

Roger
In my experience 'pretend' is effective for children, but for adults? I have never met anyone who truly lacks the ability to imagine.Were that to be the case, they are not suitable subjects for hypnotherapy, perhaps?
An interesting area to consider?

In the name of research, not disputation ...

Ian

Roger Moore, PhD said:

Maria - Many client can't imagine - that's OK - they will do fine. I often ask if they can "pretend". They don't have to see, or imagine or visualize. It's all OK.

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on January 8, 2010 at 4:50pm

"Make believe" and "pretend" could contribute to a client's getting into the right mind-set for this type of work. Plus, you wouldn't have to wonder what your clients think of you -- if you eliminated common misconceptions about what "imagine "means...

I, perhaps we, noticed you didn't answer the question, just how much experience do you have as a hypnosis professional? Take as much space as you need --





Ian Jay said:

Hi Micheal
Do you really believe that someones experience can be captured and understood in a few words in a profile? That being the case, an interesting perspective on life you must have ;-) I don't patronise my adult clients. I expect them to understand my language, and I adapt my language to suit their understanding. That's the point I am struggling to make. Example, if somebody started a session with "Let's pretend ...", I would wonder what they thought of me!
I will repeat an earlier statement - " All we have is language ...".

Ian

Michael Ellner said:

Hi Ian,

"In my experience 'pretend' is effective for children, but for adults?" Glancing at your profile -- it is not clear just how much experience you have ? Be that as it may -- I have found that "Make Believe" is an effective alternative to "Pretend" --

The lesson here is that--- what really matters is what the client believes a word means and not what the real meaning of the word is and in my extensive experience, I have found that many clients and hypnotists incorrectly believe that if they don't see images in their mind they are unable to imagine.

Consider this: If a client gets caught up thinking about not being able to "imagine" instead of going with the flow - it may not produce optimal results -- which is why it is helpful to clear this stuff up in your intake/pre-talk

Michael E.



Ian Jay said:

Roger

In my experience 'pretend' is effective for children, but for adults? I have never met anyone who truly lacks the ability to imagine.Were that to be the case, they are not suitable subjects for hypnotherapy, perhaps?
An interesting area to consider? In the name of research, not disputation ...
Ian

Roger Moore, PhD said:

Maria - Many client can't imagine - that's OK - they will do fine. I often ask if they can "pretend". They don't have to see, or imagine or visualize. It's all OK.

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on January 8, 2010 at 5:08pm

Yes -- Are you a Medical Doctor?



Ian Jay said:

Michael E.

I started exploring hypnosis in 1962. I first used it 'professionally' to relieve pain and suffering in my patients during the Vietnam war in 1971

Anything else you want to know?

Ian

Permalink Reply by Brian David Phillips on January 8, 2010 at 5:21pm

I saw your post title on the main page and already knew what I would post in response before even seeing the content . . . after seeing the content, I felt what I wanted to say was dead on for this issue . . . then I read the other comments and others have already said it. :-) So, I guess I would simply say "what he said." :-)

Seriously, there is a difference between imagination and visualization. Visualization - the ability to "see" in your head - is a subset of imagination. Some folks who see those pretty pictures do so without feeling anything or hearing anything while others bring in those senses as well.

While most folks can easily imagine and a large number of them can imagine an image, the number who do full on moving color full sensory visualization imagery is not as high. So, find out what sort of imaginer your client is and then work with 'em. A weakness of so many NLP processes is that they are geared toward strong visualizers and so the ones who don't see the images so clearly or for whom that language is alien feel that they are doing something wrong or lacking. No, shift to saying "imagine as if" instead of "imagine and see" and let them respond as powerfully as they can within their own modality then accelerate that response and bring in other senses.

If they can FEEL things then they will be fine. Those folks who are still imagining but just not visualizing will respond fine (personally, I find kinesthetic responders much easier to work with, regardless of whether or not they see pictures).

However, it's the ones who don't imagine through the sense but only "know" in the intellectual sense of the word who are the problematic ones. You need to work with those folks to engage their sensations at some level.

BTW, you are not alone in experiencing this realization. I have come across a number of folks - including highly skilled practitioners who have been doing NLP since it literally first began - who have confided in me that they are fine with "visual" imaginers but have no clue what to do when the client can't make the pictures (this is not routinely covered in many programs as there is an assumption too many make that most folks make pictures fine and most of the processes for NLP are built for visualizers).

I hope this has been helpful.

All the best,
Brian
http://www.briandavidphillips.com

Permalink Reply by Roger Moore on January 8, 2010 at 5:33pm

Ian_Jay - Oh, come on - Don't you ever pretend? Another topic for another day is whether there is anyone who is not a suitable subject.

best wishes,

Roger

Ian Jay said:

Roger

In my experience 'pretend' is effective for children, but for adults? I have never met anyone who truly lacks the ability to imagine.Were that to be the case, they are not suitable subjects for hypnotherapy, perhaps?

An interesting area to consider?

In the name of research, not disputation ...

Ian

Roger Moore, PhD said:

Maria - Many client can't imagine - that's OK - they will do fine. I often ask if they can "pretend". They don't have to see, or imagine or visualize. It's all OK.

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on January 8, 2010 at 6:26pm

Excuse me -- Ian,

You asked me if there was anything else I wanted to know and I answered your question--

One aspect of this discussion is semantics and the meanings people attach to words. For example, You stated that you have started using hypnosis to 'professionally' to relieve pain and suffering in your patients during the Vietnam war in 1971--

I would still like to know if you are a medical doctor and my question is very relevant to this discussion.



In my opinion, professional and life experience merit consideration in every thread.









Ian Jay said:

Micheal

What people do is not who people are, and my life experiences do not merit attention on this thread.

Back to topic, please!

Ian

Michael Ellner said:

Yes -- Are you a Medical Doctor?

Ian Jay said:

Michael E.

I started exploring hypnosis in 1962. I first used it 'professionally' to relieve pain and suffering in my patients during the Vietnam war in 1971 Anything else you want to know?

Ian

Permalink Reply by Brian David Phillips on January 8, 2010 at 7:25pm

I find the word "pretend" works fine with my adult clients who have difficulty believing they can imagine, whether they can or not. I ask them about their childhood and whether or not they every played a game and were so involved with the game that everything outside was shut out and that the game felt very very real to them. Most folks will say "yes" (the ones who say "no" get alternative strategies) so I ask them to take that feeling of being able to PRETEND SO WELL THAT IT'S AS IF IT FEELS REAL back with them so that when I ask them to imagine something that they can imagine and pretend so well that it FEELS as if it's as real as they can imagine it.

Sounds convoluted with stacked suggestion but it works fine.

Likewise, I do not talk down to my clients nor do I condescend to them . . . I use the "pretend" or "make believe" analogy as an access door and it tends to work well with adults as most can understand the reference.

With kids, this difficulty rarely occurs but when it does, I talk to them a bit and find their hook and go from there.

All the best,
Brian
http://www.briandavidphillips.com

Permalink Reply by John Cerbone - The Trance-Master on January 8, 2010 at 9:31pm

I will often say,
visualize, picture, imagine, notice, know or simply just think about in some way . . .as that generally covers a great deal of bases and lets them get out of their own way.
People who tell me they can't imagine anything, nor visualize anything, have most generally been told or taught that negative assumption as a disabling statement by someone in authority when they were young.
In order to function, everyone has to imagine something in some way, or we would not be able to lead our lives. In order to tie one's shoelace, someone must have some sort of impression of the methods that achieve a tied shoelace. Often, someone telling you they can imagine something may have learned to use that as a way of not dealing with a particular situation, while taking themselves out of the game, because they have learned to say they can't. It's an avoidance issue. By using language that takes away their weapon of resistance, as I did above here perhaps, you are inspiring and enabling them to get out of their own way and succeed, for no one in their lives is as fully capable of blocking themselves from success as they are.
For every I can't, there is and I can

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