Why-oh-why do I hear so much about regression to cause?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dave Sabat on February 26, 2010 at 4:28am

Ian,

You stated in an earlier post that the post you were writing would be your last word, then you went on to post some more. What is the science behind your contradiction?

If someone comes to see me as a smoker and leaves as a non-smoker then that is anecdotal, but it is the truth for the client. If an overweight client comes to see me and then loses weight then that is anecdotal, but it is the truth for the client. If someone comes to see me because they engage in unhealthy or destructive relationships and after leaving they feel happier than they have ever felt, then that is anecdotal but it is the truth for the client.

Human interaction is not scientific, it is simply interaction.

When a scientist can show me a teaspoon of love, a tablespoon of anger, a handfull of thoughts or a bucket-full of self-esteem then, and only then, will I humbly apologise to you for my assumption that the words I use, lets call it simply human interaction, were the sole cause of helping people bring about positive change in their lives. Maybe I've been "scientific" without realising it?

Duncan, people don't explode when they regress to cause and, very politely, I suggest that your mocking of the person who told you that they found the ISE of someone with IBS indicates to me that you do not yet have a full understanding of the profession that you purport to practice. Again, I mean that very politely.

Kind regards,

Dave.

Permalink Reply by Dave Sabat on February 26, 2010 at 4:49am

Ian,

I've had clients that stopped smoking and several years later are still non-smokers. The point I was making was about how the clients "truth" i.e. stopping smoking and remaining a non-smoker, is always anecdotal. Science could confirm that they don't smoke (blood tests etc) but can science explain why they stopped smoking?

Whether a suggestion lasts for seconds or a lifetime is a different matter. The "science" or "unexplainable" behind the effectiveness of the suggestion is what I was referring to.

Hope this clears that up.

Kind regards,

Dave.

Permalink Reply by Duncan Murray on February 26, 2010 at 5:01am

Dave

With all the kindness of a bucket full of optimism and a metaphorical tale to boost your self-esteem - I would never deem to profess I understood the whole of the workings of the human mind and therefore possessed the holy grail of hypnosis.

To utilise the regression for IBS - it is multifactorial, can have genetic roots, can have post-infective roots, roots in trauma and involves gut motility issues, food issues and a hypersensitive (or hyposensitive) bowel - pray inform me how you regress to cause on the genetic issues?

To quote my earlier post 'One hypno over this side of the pond informed me at a peer supervision group meeting that he regressed people with IBS to the 'ISE'!!! What?!?!?!?!' I never stated that he found an ISE...

with the kindest regards



Dave Sabat said:

Ian, Duncan, people don't explode when they regress to cause and, very politely, I suggest that your mocking of the person who told you that they found the ISE of someone with IBS indicates to me that you do not yet have a full understanding of the profession that you purport to practice. Again, I mean that very politely.
Kind regards,

Dave.

Permalink Reply by Duncan Murray on February 26, 2010 at 5:11am

The point of the thread is why is regression so apparently 'over used' it is mentioned in use more frequently by some hypnos than the term 'scandal' is in the House of Commons...

The underlying question I suppose is it used so much for the therapist's convenience rather than the client's outcomes rather than other techniques due to a lack of knowledge of those other techniques? - Just asking the question...For instance the IBS use of regression - is it because the individual doesn't know how to do Gut Orientated Therapy - and just goes - 'oh I don't know I'll regress them that will keep them happy' I haven't seen a single scientific paper on IBS and Hypnotherapy mention regress to cause!!!!

Just my penny's worth

Permalink Reply by Dave Sabat on February 26, 2010 at 5:12am

Ian,

If you believe that simple human interaction, or, all human interaction is "new-age, spiritual, hocus-pocus" then that is your choice.

All I do is talk. That's it, just talk.

Maybe you should find some crystal healing, tarot or EFT forums to express your "hocus-pocus" views.

I believe that you use EFT with your clients so, as widely reported and practiced, EFT works with the energy meridians of the body (unproven and unscientific) but, and this a big but, if you don't tap on the meridian exactly then that is still OK. In theory then, I could tap my right testicle or left nipple while repeating a mantra like chant and "heal" or overcome emotional issues?

Ian, tap your left nipple and repeat out loud "Even thought I am a hypocrite and am reminded of the old saying about pots, kettles and the colour black, I deeply and completely love and accept myself".

That session is free of charge Ian, it's on me amigo.

Have a fantastic day and peace be with you.

Kind regards,

Dave.

Ian Jay said:

Dave

Truth is subjective. Facts are objective.
Just because we cannot explain a biological mechanism does not give the right to create some 'new-age, spritual, hocus-pocus' explanation instead. Or does it?
IJ

Dave Sabat said:

Ian,
I've had clients that stopped smoking and several years later are still non-smokers. The point I was making was about how the clients "truth" i.e. stopping smoking and remaining a non-smoker, is always anecdotal. Science could confirm that they don't smoke (blood tests etc) but can science explain why they stopped smoking?
Whether a suggestion lasts for seconds or a lifetime is a different matter. The "science" or "unexplainable" behind the effectivess of the suggestion is what I was referring to.

Hope this clears that up.

Kind regards,

Dave.

Permalink Reply by Dave Sabat on February 26, 2010 at 5:22am

Duncan - you regress to cause on the emotional issues.

Ian - glad you enjoy my blog!

Kind regards to you both,

Dave.

Permalink Reply by Duncan Murray on February 26, 2010 at 5:44am

Hmmmm! Emotions are not the cause in the IBS....emotions such as anger can increase the symptoms' severity but they don't cause it....still no answer on the genetic regression to cause I take it? Or perhaps the gut motility is regressed....or perhaps the hypersensitivity of the bowel is regressed - in fact the gut has its own Enteric Nervous System - which is known as the second brain...I wonder if that has a subconscious element to it that could be regressed to cause??

Now Duncan stop being sarcastic - tell yourself off! Good-boy!

Let's try that again

The underlying question I suppose: is it used so much for the therapist's convenience rather than the client's outcomes rather than other techniques due to a lack of knowledge of those other techniques? - Just asking the question...

Dave Sabat said:

Duncan - you regress to cause on the emotional issues.
Ian - glad you enjoy my blog! Kind regards to you both,

Dave.

Permalink Reply by Henxy on February 26, 2010 at 6:12am

My, Duncan,
Don't you know a lot about IBS?! ;-P

Duncan Murray said:

Dave

With all the kindness of a bucket full of optimism and a metaphorical tale to boost your self-esteem - I would never deem to profess I understood the whole of the workings of the human mind and therefore possessed the holy grail of hypnosis.

To utilise the regression for IBS - it is multifactorial, can have genetic roots, can have post-infective roots, roots in trauma and involves gut motility issues, food issues and a hypersensitive (or hyposensitive) bowel - pray inform me how you regress to cause on the genetic issues?

To quote my earlier post 'One hypno over this side of the pond informed me at a peer supervision group meeting that he regressed people with IBS to the 'ISE'!!! What?!?!?!?!' I never stated that he found an ISE...

with the kindest regards



Dave Sabat said:

Ian, Duncan, people don't explode when they regress to cause and, very politely, I suggest that your mocking of the person who told you that they found the ISE of someone with IBS indicates to me that you do not yet have a full understanding of the profession that you purport to practice. Again, I mean that very politely.
Kind regards,

Dave.

Permalink Reply by Duncan Murray on February 26, 2010 at 6:26am

Amazing isn't it - I had a dream that someone fantastic helped me out big time with understanding IBS properly - well weird...some very knowledgeable Nurse type around Sandwell...haven't met anyone like that have you?

Henxy said:

My, Duncan,
Don't you know a lot about IBS?! ;-P

Duncan Murray said:

Dave

With all the kindness of a bucket full of optimism and a metaphorical tale to boost your self-esteem - I would never deem to profess I understood the whole of the workings of the human mind and therefore possessed the holy grail of hypnosis.

To utilise the regression for IBS - it is multifactorial, can have genetic roots, can have post-infective roots, roots in trauma and involves gut motility issues, food issues and a hypersensitive (or hyposensitive) bowel - pray inform me how you regress to cause on the genetic issues?

To quote my earlier post 'One hypno over this side of the pond informed me at a peer supervision group meeting that he regressed people with IBS to the 'ISE'!!! What?!?!?!?!' I never stated that he found an ISE...

with the kindest regards



Dave Sabat said:

Ian, Duncan, people don't explode when they regress to cause and, very politely, I suggest that your mocking of the person who told you that they found the ISE of someone with IBS indicates to me that you do not yet have a full understanding of the profession that you purport to practice. Again, I mean that very politely.
Kind regards,

Dave.

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on February 26, 2010 at 6:26am

Hello Dave,

Dr Peter Worewell's IBS research team for the NHS in the UK found that regressive therapy is contra-indicated for IBS.

As did Melissa Roth, Alan Barsky and I based on our extensive client experience in the US.

Warmest regards,

Michael E.

Dave Sabat said:

Ian,
Duncan, people don't explode when they regress to cause and, very politely, I suggest that your mocking of the person who told you that they found the ISE of someone with IBS indicates to me that you do not yet have a full understanding of the profession that you purport to practice. Again, I mean that very politely.
Kind regards,

Dave.

Permalink Reply by Pete & Lorraine on February 26, 2010 at 6:34am

Hi Michael
I wasn't putting anybody down for having a degree in anything, I respect anybody for their achievement's which involves a lot of hard work and study, my point was just because we don't all have degrees doesn't mean we don't know what we are talking about or know what we are doing and the way Ian replied which suggested that anyone here without a degree doesn't have a valid point to make. There are a lot of people here who are very highly educated, but you don't see posts from them putting other therapist down in such a derogatory way with such a sweeping statement.

Pete

Michael Zappellini said:

I agree that regression can be very useful sometimes and I agree that sometimes is not really necessary,
the reason why I intervened is that I am starting to be a little fed up with people who are talking about PHD's
psychologists, in a denigrative way like if they were a bunch of imbeciles because they studied 10 years for a degree, I agree that the degree doesn't make u a good therapist, but also 50/100/300/500/1000 hours of hypnotherapy don't make you a good therapist either.
Just my 2 upset cents

Peter Bateman & Lorraine Gleeson said:

We use the IMR to ask if the client needs to regress to resolve the problem, some don't but most do and it's not always bad stuff such as truama a lot of the time it is silly insignificant situations incorrectly held by the subconscious playing the emotions out inappropriately when a trigger is close to the ISE, therefore the there and then is being played out in the hear and now. Dealing with the cause releases a lot of emotions, stored for years, incorrect perceptions or beliefs about what happened to them are also cleared up, one person grew up believing that a parent had abused them because of what they were told, a kid caught up in the parents fight, it turned out nothing had happened it was just a walk in the woods, because of the healing work when finishing the regression and a better understanding of their past some of our clients have better relationship with their parents or siblings or they know were never abused, and where it has, they get to have their say to who ever hurt them. Dealing with here and now is great, we have done some great work, however there are times when getting to the source and dealing with it can have a positive knock on effect as several problems can be tied into the one area of their life.

Pete

Permalink Reply by Duncan Murray on February 26, 2010 at 6:38am

Thank you Michael - this practitioner using regressive techniques is not in the NHS - G.O.T. is the only approach in the NHS following on from Whorwell's ( and his teams') superb research into IBS - and yes regressive techniques for IBS are a no-no!

Michael Ellner said:

Hello Dave,
Dr Peter Worewell's IBS research team for the NHS in the UK found that regressive therapy is contra-indicated for IBS.
As did Melissa Roth, Alan Barsky and I based on our extensive client experience in the US.

Warmest regards,

Michael E.

Dave Sabat said:

Ian,
Duncan, people don't explode when they regress to cause and, very politely, I suggest that your mocking of the person who told you that they found the ISE of someone with IBS indicates to me that you do not yet have a full understanding of the profession that you purport to practice. Again, I mean that very politely. Kind regards,
Dave.

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