Signs of Trance

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Benjamin Jay Wight on May 16, 2010 at 7:53pm

Great Post Idea!

Fluttering eye-lids or eye-muscles can be noticed usually while the subject is sitting there relaxed.

Jerky/non-smooth muscle movements indicate trance. When doing arm levitation for example you can notice that the movement of the arm is slightly jerking upwards instead of continually being smooth and uninterruped. This indicates that the subject is experiencing trance and not just 'playing along'.

Reddened eyes is caused by the blood vessels in their eyes to relax allowing more blood to flow through. Another sign of trance. Sometimes the subject may experience teary eyes as well when the muscles that control the tear ducts around the eyes relax.

The above signs are difficult or impossible to fake as well so I find them to be good indications of trance states. Of course things like limp muscles and slower, deeper breathing indicates trance too but subjects may acheive these simply from feeling relaxed - which is good anyway.

Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on May 17, 2010 at 11:50am

There is a much easier method... ask the subject if they are experiencing what you suggested.

Example:
In a moment, I will say the name of a color. When I say this color you will notice that your left arm becomes very relaxed and begins feeling quite heavy. Let me know when you experience this so we can move on to the next step; Is that okay with you? Good. Are you ready? Good... Blue (snap).

Set compliance up as a condition to continue. If they aren't responding to what you are saying, find out right away and fix it, rather than wasting your breath any further.

just a suggestion
John

Permalink Reply by Pete & Lorraine on May 17, 2010 at 12:28pm

I like this one, I usually use some or all of the above. I also find IMR a good indicator.

Pete

John Cleesattel said:

There is a much easier method... ask the subject if they are experiencing what you suggested.

Example:
In a moment, I will say the name of a color. When I say this color you will notice that your left arm becomes very relaxed and begins feeling quite heavy. Let me know when you experience this so we can move on to the next step; Is that okay with you? Good. Are you ready? Good... Blue (snap).

Set compliance up as a condition to continue. If they aren't responding to what you are saying, find out right away and fix it, rather than wasting your breath any further.

just a suggestion
John

Permalink Reply by Benjamin Jay Wight on May 17, 2010 at 6:41pm

For those beginners of you who dont know what IMR is, it means Ideo-Motor Response. An ideomotor response is an automatic muscular response which the concious mind has no control over - the movement is involuntary or reflexive. This means it makes a great indicator because the subject probably sint aware he/she is even doing it.

Peter Bateman & Lorraine Gleeson said:

I like this one, I usually use some or all of the above. I also find IMR a good indicator.

Pete

John Cleesattel said:

There is a much easier method... ask the subject if they are experiencing what you suggested.

Example:
In a moment, I will say the name of a color. When I say this color you will notice that your left arm becomes very relaxed and begins feeling quite heavy. Let me know when you experience this so we can move on to the next step; Is that okay with you? Good. Are you ready? Good... Blue (snap).

Set compliance up as a condition to continue. If they aren't responding to what you are saying, find out right away and fix it, rather than wasting your breath any further.

just a suggestion
John

Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on May 17, 2010 at 6:43pm

Nice, John. As you have said (and I listened) if things aren't happening, chances are the client is not following your instructions. I agree with you on all accounts of getting permission to progress further, which acts as a deepener of itself, does it not?

John Cleesattel said:

There is a much easier method... ask the subject if they are experiencing what you suggested.

Example:
In a moment, I will say the name of a color. When I say this color you will notice that your left arm becomes very relaxed and begins feeling quite heavy. Let me know when you experience this so we can move on to the next step; Is that okay with you? Good. Are you ready? Good... Blue (snap).

Set compliance up as a condition to continue. If they aren't responding to what you are saying, find out right away and fix it, rather than wasting your breath any further.

just a suggestion
John

Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on May 17, 2010 at 6:57pm

In a manner of speaking it is a deepener because via the permission, the trance acceptance bandwidth is increased, and "depth of trance" is really just the boundry of acceptance.

John

Kelley Woods said:

Nice, John. As you have said (and I listened) if things aren't happening, chances are the client is not following your instructions. I agree with you on all accounts of getting permission to progress further, which acts as a deepener of itself, does it not?

John Cleesattel said:

There is a much easier method... ask the subject if they are experiencing what you suggested.

Example:
In a moment, I will say the name of a color. When I say this color you will notice that your left arm becomes very relaxed and begins feeling quite heavy. Let me know when you experience this so we can move on to the next step; Is that okay with you? Good. Are you ready? Good... Blue (snap).

Set compliance up as a condition to continue. If they aren't responding to what you are saying, find out right away and fix it, rather than wasting your breath any further.

just a suggestion
John

Permalink Reply by Benjamin Jay Wight on June 28, 2010 at 3:55am

Ha. Thats great. I love it. :)

John Cleesattel said:

In a manner of speaking it is a deepener because via the permission, the trance acceptance bandwidth is increased, and "depth of trance" is really just the boundry of acceptance.

John

Kelley Woods said:

Nice, John. As you have said (and I listened) if things aren't happening, chances are the client is not following your instructions. I agree with you on all accounts of getting permission to progress further, which acts as a deepener of itself, does it not?

John Cleesattel said:

There is a much easier method... ask the subject if they are experiencing what you suggested.

Example:
In a moment, I will say the name of a color. When I say this color you will notice that your left arm becomes very relaxed and begins feeling quite heavy. Let me know when you experience this so we can move on to the next step; Is that okay with you? Good. Are you ready? Good... Blue (snap).

Set compliance up as a condition to continue. If they aren't responding to what you are saying, find out right away and fix it, rather than wasting your breath any further.

just a suggestion
John

Permalink Reply by Keithanthony on July 5, 2011 at 5:37pm

I also use IMR by suggesting to my subject that I wish to talk only to the Sub Conscious mind. I let my subject know that the subconscious mind will indicate to me non verbally . I usually look for a finger twitch, and ask when I see it for confirmation by feeding back what I see by saying, "I'm not sure yet whether that was a twitch or may have been your subconscious?" It usually twitches again if I have succeeded in making contact.

When it does twitch it takes them deeper, if there is no twitch still my question sends them deeper too. IMR are win/win

 

Keithanthony

Permalink Reply by Kelley Woods on July 10, 2011 at 11:42am

A caveat about IMR: if your trance partner is experienced with finger signals, particular ones may have been previously designated. I recently touched my client's finger, requesting it be her "yes" indicator. Major mistake! It backfired because a finger on the opposite hand had previously (she had worked in hypnosis prior) been anchored as a "yes" signal. Her SC struggled with the mix up and made her foot twitch instead. I only heard about the error after emerging from trance and luckily, my mistake didn't damage our work. I should have allowed her to choose but I fell into a desire of control. Never again!

Permalink Reply by Ian Williams on December 14, 2011 at 2:53am

Hi John

How do you find and fix the problem?

 

ian

John Cleesattel said:

There is a much easier method... ask the subject if they are experiencing what you suggested.

Example:
In a moment, I will say the name of a color. When I say this color you will notice that your left arm becomes very relaxed and begins feeling quite heavy. Let me know when you experience this so we can move on to the next step; Is that okay with you? Good. Are you ready? Good... Blue (snap).

Set compliance up as a condition to continue. If they aren't responding to what you are saying, find out right away and fix it, rather than wasting your breath any further.

just a suggestion
John

Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on December 14, 2011 at 6:51am

I ask the client what they ARE experiencing.

There are 5 basic reasons that people don't follow your instructions. Three are ignorance based and two are fear based.

Ignorance based:

1. They literally don't understand the instruction. Go deeper where? Double what? etc.

2. They try and expedite the process by anticipating instructions...instead of allowing each stair step to take them deeper into trance they are already at the bottom of the stairs waiting for the next instruction.

3. They try to help you by "making" the suggested reaction happen.

Fear based:

4. They won't "allow" it to happen because of fear of loss of control, fear of revealing secrets, etc.

5. A protective behavior was learned in the past due to an episode(s) of being dominated or bullied that actively prevents trance from happening.

Find out which of these is the culprit(s) and take action accordingly.

I hope this helps

John

Ian Williams said:

Hi John

How do you find and fix the problem?

 

ian

John Cleesattel said:

There is a much easier method... ask the subject if they are experiencing what you suggested.

Example:
In a moment, I will say the name of a color. When I say this color you will notice that your left arm becomes very relaxed and begins feeling quite heavy. Let me know when you experience this so we can move on to the next step; Is that okay with you? Good. Are you ready? Good... Blue (snap).

Set compliance up as a condition to continue. If they aren't responding to what you are saying, find out right away and fix it, rather than wasting your breath any further.

just a suggestion
John

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on December 14, 2011 at 8:55am

Hi Kelley, John, et al

@ John

You wrote: "There is a much easier method... ask the subject if they are experiencing what you suggested."

I agree there is great utility in asking the client if they are experiencing what we suggest or waching them experience our suggestions via their reactions to our suggestions

@ Kelley-

I suggest dropping the 90% of communication is non-verbal statistic from our minds - It is not true...

Great interview - 

http://www.presentationworks.me/index.php/2009/11/mehrabian-on-the-...

How is your Dad?

Michael

 

John Cleesattel said: