Language Patterns: Embedded Commands, Analog Marking

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Permalink Reply by Blankfrost on April 4, 2009 at 1:51pm

with embedded commands i ofhen thought you had to make the embbeded command a sentence like "i had a SCRATCH on my arm from YOUR nails when we were kids why you did it no one KNOWS" so when you put them together it says "scratch your nose" but in your above example there isn't an embedded sentance its just words associated with itching.

so does it really matter if you use aembedded sentence as long as the embedded words are asociated with the respnose you want?

Permalink Reply by Blankfrost on April 4, 2009 at 2:01pm

do people naturally embed words and commands in their sentances? i know people naturally mark out and stress important words like "its not YOURS exactly you have just been BORRWING IT for a long time" but the stressed words aren't commands or seggestions.

but i read in tranceformations that bandler was working with a women and when she decribed her problem she ofhen unconciously marked out the words SHCOKING or SHOCK, ELECTRIC and TREATMENT bandler noticed this and came to discover that the root of her problem was to do with her electric shock treatment that she had years ago.

are there any other example of normal people naturally marking out words that relate to a root unconcious thought pattern, feeling or something like the above example??

Permalink Reply by dan jones on April 4, 2009 at 2:24pm

The idea is to create associations for what you want. So you can mark out whole embedded sentences like SCRATCH YOUR NOSE, or you can mark out words associated with scratching your nose. Just saying something like 'We've only SCRATCHed the surface but who knows (NOSE) what else we will find'

This doesn't have a well formed sentence yet it can have the same effect because it is marking out to the unconscious to scratch and where to scratch.

In your example of YOURS and BORROWING IT being marked out this would be the same thing. A message is being conveyed by chosing those words to mark out. As is the Bandler example. The idea of embedded commands is to convey an alternative message, with many people in every day situations it is usually a message they don't want to say but it is what they want to say on the inside so they convey it with emphasis to pass the message on without directly saying it.

This process of marking things out is common and happens in everyday situations. In therapy people often apply emphasis to words and phrases that are linked with the problem, in everyday situations people convey how they feel etc even when they don't mean to by marking things out (for example someone could be talking about a boss and about how they think the person is a good boss to work for while marking out (perhaps with some tension in their voice) certain words associated with problems they have with the boss).

People very commonly mark out many of these ideas with hand gestures. Studying gestures can be a fascinating learning experience.

Permalink Reply by Blankfrost on April 4, 2009 at 3:12pm

most unconious things we do benifit us in one way or another even if the benifit doesn't seem like a benifit. what would be the benifit of unconciously marking out things that we might not even want the other person to know or something that we have long forgetten conciously???

with the bandler example wouldn't that mean that she knew the answer to the problem on a deep level somehow even though she forgotten about the shock treatment?

Permalink Reply by dan jones on April 4, 2009 at 10:18pm

People often know answers on a deep level that is why when I work I try not to give any suggestions etc and work Ideo-Dynamically.

It's true most unconscious activities are for our benefit but it also makes mistakes by getting stuck in patterns it has learnt often these patterns are useful under specific circumstances like phobias.

When communicating our unconscious mind generally conveys the truth while consciously we communicate the message we want heard. That is why you look at both conscious and unconscious communication and if they are incongruent and there is a mismatch in the conscious and unconscious message then this is often a sign of where to work. If there is this mismatch you want to pay attention to unconscious messages as these are likely to be the true answers and responses.

With the shock treatment thing it probably wasn't forgotten, it is more likely to just not have been consciously linked to the problem. In research it appears to be incredibly rare for people to have repression of memories, they may not remember all the details but usually know the event happened and have some memory of it, espeicially if there is more than one incident (like abuse etc)

Permalink Reply by Blankfrost on April 9, 2009 at 6:07am

why does embedded commands work exactly? does it work because your mind is constantly sorting and processing things it hears and see etc.. and always looks out for patterns that it knows or is discovering so if it notices that words are being said differently it will connect the pattern and act on it?...thats my guess how does it work??

Permalink Reply by Blankfrost on April 9, 2009 at 6:12am

do embedded commands need to be marked out with tonality or will it still work if you just use a gesture without out tonality change? would it be more powerful to use tonality and gestures simultaneously? when using gestures should you use the same gesture to mark or can you change gestures or use various gestures or would this effect the effectiveness????

Permalink Reply by dan jones on April 9, 2009 at 8:20am

That is how it works, it recognises the pattern and responds to it.

Permalink Reply by dan jones on April 9, 2009 at 8:31am

If you kept changing gestures it may no longer be a pattern. Ideally you want the same thing. It doesn't seem to be any more or less effective whether you use a gesture or tonality or touch, or anything else. It often depends on the situation and what you are doing. If they will be closing their eyes a gesture wouldn't work well because they would stop seeing it. I often use a number of things. One would be moving my head so that the sound of my voice arrives at each ear at slightly different time marking out suggestions etc, I also use changes in tonality (a different tone associated with different states), and if I am doing a course or something then I am likely to use a gesture if the people aren't going to be closing their eyes. It all depends what you are doing.

Often I have different head movements (sometimes I use more subtle techniques) one for when I am talking to the conscious, one for talking to the unconscious, central for both, and then if necessary create other movements if I need to do more.

Then tonal shifts for different states so my tonality is congruent with that state (so I use a relaxed tone for relaxation, regular tone for normal awareness, excited tone for excitement etc)

Permalink Reply by Blankfrost on April 13, 2009 at 8:24am

hey will embedded commands work in text aswell as with the voice like embedded commands in emails text ,messgaes, books magazines.. by marking out the words with a different text style like if you send someone a email you could embedded messgaes to make them feel good and relaxed? do you know of stuff like this?

Permalink Reply by dan jones on April 13, 2009 at 8:47am

Yes they (and other language patterns) in text etc works. I add them to letters, emails, text messages, etc... Normally I will add an extra space before and after the embedded commands, or I will use a different size text (like size 10 then the command in size 11, or 10.5). In text messages and skype etc I usually use a capital letter at the beginning of the words in the embedded commands.

Permalink Reply by Blankfrost on April 14, 2009 at 4:55am

are language patterns less effective in text then when speaking. because text is very different from when your speaking to someone face to face or is the effect the same??