Are Hypnotic Trances a Unique Altered State or A Normal State of Absortion? Hypnosis Professionals of all levels of practice and persuasions are welcome to participate

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joe K Fobes on July 14, 2010 at 1:58pm

I think hypnosis isn't a 'state' it's simply a description of a situation where the SC is accepting suggestions from the hypnotist. This can come from relaxation at times, from focus (or trance), and it can come from getting the SC to accept the suggestion that it accepts suggestions.

Mild Joe, who's on fire in the field of critical thinking

Permalink Reply by Ron Franks on July 15, 2010 at 2:27am

I expect this...

discussion is going to be a lot of fun as of coarse each of our responses are dependent upon our individually accepted definitions of the critical terms (especially trance and hypnotic) as there is such a variety of such interpretations it shall no doubt be a challenge not to be misunderstood in our discoarse. But of coarse this is so in most, if not all communication, so let the games begin (perhaps in the process we may come into a rather general agreement on an accepted meaning of these terms so as to avoid egoic reactions to one another and should that be so, I feel that would alone be a great accomplishment considering some discussions on this Forum where I have seen Professionals attacking one another as though there is only room in this forum and on the planet for their opinions which they mistaken as absolute truth) . In any event, here's what comes up for me in pondering this worthy topic.

I view trance as a state of being during which one has totally lost oneself in one's experience. That is to say that one is so totally absorbed in the experience that s/he forgets who s/he is: the experiencer. Now this is very easy and enjoyable indeed which might explain why so many people are in such a state a good part, if not most, of their day - how wonderful to just give your attention to just one thing and let the mundane tasks associated with every day needs and desires be fulfilled by the subconcious mind that carries out such multiple responsibilities/essential/requirements unimpeded and unburdened by conscious awareness and deliberate thought. I would not argue that such a state is not without its benefits. Now, if such a state is consciously chosen then I see that state as being hypnotic and it will necessarily require conscious direction and guidance whether it be the consciousness of the individual or that of some other (that person would be called a hypnotist, hypnotherapist, guru, or whatever depending on one's preferred label). So I would call this type of a trance a unique hypnotic trance in distinguishin it from the forme trance I first described which I would call everyday states of entrancement.

I would say that my level of seasoning is Light as I only recently was willing to give any attention to obtaining certifications as I realized that most people are more convinced by credentials than they are performance and I desired to reach more people with which I can share the benefits of hypnosis.

Permalink Reply by Walt on July 15, 2010 at 5:09am

Helium here with an opinion. I'm light and bright like a new penny.

Before we go to far, we should define some terms. We can't be right or wrong in how we do this. Our definitions can be as useful as possible for our investigations.

We can use these definitions to communicate our beliefs.

Permalink Reply by James on July 15, 2010 at 11:11am

opinion:

Both:

Hot

Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on July 15, 2010 at 11:20am

Opinion:

I don't think either of the choices presented for hypnotic trance actually fits the phenomenon.

I feel that hypnosis amplifies our natural trance states to make them more profound and make level of acceptance to outside input greater than without it.

John - (Who doesn't think longevity necessarily equals expertise) - full of beans

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on July 15, 2010 at 2:46pm

Hey - Good to see all of you here-

Opinion:

I am all for exploring definitions to streamline our discussion. I believe that suggestion amplifies our suggestibility and that increases our ability to effect mind/body changes. Increased suggestibility can respond to inside and outside input.

JoeK
I think every thing that we do reflects a "state of being." I do not think that is what is meant by hypnos who view hypnosis as a distinct "state"
Does that work for you?

Ron -
You mention a state of being mostly associated with pleasant stuff-- In my experiences most people experience negative "trances" or negative "self-hypnosis" when they are absorbed in every day self-talk.... Is that in line with your opinion.

James-
Both could work depending on your definitions -- What are your definitions?

Walt-
How do you define trance or hypnotic trance?

John,
Do you believe that induction results in a hypnotic trance or simply amplifies every day trances? How would you define self-hypnosis

Looking forward to your replies-

Michael E. - well seasoned...

Permalink Reply by Antoine Pruyssers on July 15, 2010 at 3:14pm

This is my opinion as a "smokin' hot" ht:

We as hypnotists use "ordinary" everyday trances, to create "new" trances that are more effective then the former states.
We use hypnosis to do this, which I believe is not realy a state, but a multitude of tools, to utilize our knowledge of altered, and natural states, to help, and entertain people, get into a wanted altered state.

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on July 15, 2010 at 3:42pm

Hi Antoine-

Opinion:

Your answer is smoking and I wonder how my paraphrase works for you?

We as hypnotists use "ordinary" everyday trances, to create "intentional" trances that are more responsive to our suggestions...


FYI -- I think every day trances can be very powerful -- Many clients come in with every trances that tell them they are not thin enough, tall enough, good,enought, smart enough - I help them take the emotional charges out of those beliefs and charge their healthier beliefs for change...

You wrote:
We use hypnosis to do this, which I believe is not realy a state, but a multitude of tools, to utilize our knowledge of altered, and natural states, to help, and entertain people, get into a wanted altered state.
Please consider subsituting the word "enhanced" state for "altered" which has negative vibes on my side of the pond...

Michael E

Antoine Pruyssers said:

This is my opinion as a "smokin' hot" ht:

Permalink Reply by Antoine Pruyssers on July 15, 2010 at 3:54pm

Your paraphrasing sprouted roots.

Michael Ellner said:

Hi Antoine-

Opinion:

Your answer is smoking and I wonder how my paraphrase works for you?

We as hypnotists use "ordinary" everyday trances, to create "intentional" trances that are more responsive to our suggestions...


FYI -- I think every day trances can be very powerful -- Many clients come in with every trances that tell them they are not thin enough, tall enough, good,enought, smart enough - I help them take the emotional charges out of those beliefs and charge their healthier beliefs for change...

You wrote:
We use hypnosis to do this, which I believe is not realy a state, but a multitude of tools, to utilize our knowledge of altered, and natural states, to help, and entertain people, get into a wanted altered state.
Please consider subsituting the word "enhanced" state for "altered" which has negative vibes on my side of the pond...

Michael E

Antoine Pruyssers said:

This is my opinion as a "smokin' hot" ht:

Permalink Reply by Walt on July 15, 2010 at 5:46pm

Opinion from a light weight.

I think that this is heading in a good direction. As we attempt to define our terms, we'll illuminate our topics. When we come to some consensus about terminology our discussions will be more productive.

Let's see if the following works:

Hypnosis is a process that purposefully changes the state of a subject's mind.

The subject maybe one's self or another. When I say state I realize that we're constantly moving from one arrangement of mind to another.

When I do self-hypnosis I change my state to one that is receptive of the suggestions I intend to make. These suggestions change my state again. For example, I become receptive to the suggestion that I will change the experience of my pain, I then change the experience of my pain. Then I emerge(another state change) with a new experience of my pain. The self-hypnosis has been a process whose intention has been to change the experience of my pain.

This sequence of state changes feels different to me than the usual sequence of state changes I experience but may not be aware of.

The important thing to me is that hypnosis is an intentional state changing process. Guided state change.

This may or may not be a useful definition. Notice that I've created no content here. I've simply been naming things. This definition can be discarded, changed or allowed to evolve.

What do we mean by trance? Not sure as yet. However, I think we want to mean something different from a state of mind. Something with more punch, different. Focused, narrow? ....... I think that trance is a pretty word. Let's give a nice definition.

Sometimes I put myself into a receptive state and just let things unfold. So I pass control of the intentional process off to my ???? . It's very interesting to observe what happens. Fun.

How deep should we peel the onion?

Permalink Reply by John Cleesattel on July 15, 2010 at 6:03pm

Opinion (reinforced by personal research)

Induction is a verb, that to me means using hypnosis techniques to create and amplify our natural trance state.

Your phrasing suggests amplification of an already existing everyday type trance, and I feel this is an exception instead of the rule.

I suggest that through our knowledge of what creates a natural trance state, we cause one to purposely happen and then amplify it, or make it more profound. Although, speaking of the aforementioned exception, I have successfully "hijacked" an existing trance state in the past.

Acceptance of suggestion results in progressively easier suggestion acceptance, as long as acceptable boundaries are not violated.

It is as much the solacing of the watchdog (judgmental mind) as it is creating the trance state.

Self-Hypnosis is simply establishing a similar trance state and amplifying via instructions given to self, rather than another person. This can be via recording, or using the internal voice of the judgmental mind.

John - full of beans


John,
Do you believe that induction results in a hypnotic trance or simply amplifies every day trances? How would you define self-hypnosis

Permalink Reply by Michael Ellner on July 15, 2010 at 6:49pm

Hey Walter-

By the powers vested in me -- you've gained some weight - Consider yourself hot and spicy...

Hey folks - How does this sound?

Hypnosis is a process that purposefully changes a subject's "mindset".

The word "state" confuses the issue in my opinion

The subject maybe one's self or another.

We are constantly moving from one "mindset" to another.

When people are hypnotized or practice self-hypnosis their mindset is changed and that changes their brain and creates the space for change... Changing one's mindset can change their experience of pain in several ways - the stress reduction raises their thresholds and the suggestions produce feel good peptides which changes their painful experience and focusing there attention here takes there attention away from there...

Hypnosis is an intentional process for creating Guided Change.

Let's peel the onion all the way and slice and dice it

Michael E.

Walt Potter said:

Opinion from a light weight.

I think that this is heading in a good direction. As we attempt to define our terms, we'll illuminate our topics. When we come to some consensus about terminology our discussions will be more productive.

Let's see if the following works:

Hypnosis is a process that purposefully changes the state of a subject's mind.

The subject maybe one's self or another. When I say state I realize that we're constantly moving from one arrangement of mind to another.

When I do self-hypnosis I change my state to one that is receptive of the suggestions I intend to make. These suggestions change my state again. For example, I become receptive to the suggestion that I will change the experience of my pain, I then change the experience of my pain. Then I emerge(another state change) with a new experience of my pain. The self-hypnosis has been a process whose intention has been to change the experience of my pain.

This sequence of state changes feels different to me than the usual sequence of state changes I experience but may not be aware of.

The important thing to me is that hypnosis is an intentional state changing process. Guided state change.

This may or may not be a useful definition. Notice that I've created no content here. I've simply been naming things. This definition can be discarded, changed or allowed to evolve.

What do we mean by trance? Not sure as yet. However, I think we want to mean something different from a state of mind. Something with more punch, different. Focused, narrow? ....... I think that trance is a pretty word. Let's give a nice definition.

Sometimes I put myself into a receptive state and just let things unfold. So I pass control of the intentional process off to my ???? . It's very interesting to observe what happens. Fun.

How deep should we peel the onion?

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• …
• 5
• Next ›
• Page