A Discussion About Discussions: I'm tired of personal attacks on anyone in our discussions....

PPS:

A shorter, easier way to say this would be to use what we use in 12-Step: NO CROSS TALK. But if you aren't familiar with that rule, you can read on.

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I've been chewing on these thoughts since whenever it was we had that discussion about structure of scripts, necessary or not.

Whenever I find myself in an encounter or discussion that becomes unpleasant, I try to discipline myself to ask myself a number of questions: 1) have I contributed in some way to the unpleasantness, 2) is there a point of value here that I've missed, 3) why am I feeling defensive or attacked (is it me or them) 4) why should that bother me; ie., what are my issues, 5) is there something of value that can be extracted.

Call me obsesssive, compulsive, or overly introspective but that's my process. It works for me.

I haven't been able to quite figure out why these kinds of discussions disintegrate into unpleasantness. I just know that they do. I also know that they don't have to disintegrate into unpleasantness.

The criteria, as nearly as I can see, has only to do with whether or not contributions are made to the discussion for the purpose of sharing, exploration and discovery. Whenever a discussion disintegrates into something personal, it becomes unpleasant, without purpose, unnecessary and unproductive.

However strong the intention of any and all of us who participate is to share information and even personal points-of-view, when participants get "personal," the thrust of the discussion is lost. This is not a judgement of anyone.

In and of itself, my view of this is that not only is the value in the discussion lost (for the most part) but discussions in general begin to carry the potential to become contentious, mean, judgmental and negative.

While some seem to thrive on battle, the broader effect is to turn off, turn away, disgust, upset, and/or frighten those who may want to participate in this exchange. Discussions to follow become tainted with the fear of becoming ensnared one more time; beginners, the less hardy and the less willing drop away. My belief is that we all lose.

I have come to learn over time that this is almost expected in internet threads but I don't think it has to be so. I especially believe that we who are presenting ourselves as mental health professionals and people who want to help others, need to learn how to have discussions tempered by maturity and professionalism.

If we can't demonstrate this, what does it say about us and our community. My personal feeling (in general and not specific) is that any display that is not emotionally healthy, not carried out in a professional and mature way, diminishes all of us.

Scott enlisted Richard and Fable to moderate. That has been so helpful. Two groups have been formed for those who DO enjoy his kind of verbal sparring. That seem to be a perfect alternative in a democratic society. Yay us!

But I opted out of Hypnothoughts for a long time bc worthy and perhaps controversial discussions became a vessel for personal attacks. I have observed and had private conversations with others who have the same feeling. It has been my observation that we have lost contributions that would benefit us.

I think it has weakened the power and value of serious questioning and exchange of information, including opinions, that we have (had) here at our disposal.

You can decide that this is just a rant or if it might be a subject for consideration. I miss the feeling of community and the opportunity to learn from those who have come before me as well as to teach those who follow. I don't miss the personal attacks that seem to occur. And not even from the most of us but from some of us...some of the time. It just is not necessary or productive.

It's not that any of can't get sucked into battle including me, but perhaps you can take this as a plea once again to find a way to keep the personal attacks out the discussions.

What I have decided to do in the future is to moderate any post or discussion. I'm simply going to delete any comment that becomes personal. What are the criteria? For one thing, when the pronoun "I" changes to the pronoun "you," red flag. Kind of like, if you can't say something positive, don't say anything. You can disagree but you don't really need to be disagreeable.

That doesn't mean we can't disagree. It is from divergent and even opposing opinions that we learn. I'm a major "First Amendment" person. It means (to me) that the comments that carry any kind of assessment of anybody else's intelligence, worth, value, sincerity, knowledge, wisdom, rightness, wrongness, or the even right to have a controversial opinion will be excluded (by me), from my discussions and posts.

While I always welcome opinions, takes, information, even dissension, I'm really sick and tired of the infantile posturing and insulting remarks that sometimes creeps in. It just isn't necessary to have a good discussion.

My way of handling this for myself is to set all discussions and posts of mine into moderation mode. As for other people's discussions, I can only hope that these ideas begin to expand into the culture here. I'm hoping that my decision is not taken as an attempt to hijack any discussion but to help to create a safer place, not only for myself, but for others.

I come from a legacy of the value of open discussion, being able to be authentic or not-yet-knowing (the word ignorant carrying taint of judgment) without the constant dread of nasty, negative or insulting responses. I'm not saying that I haven't participated. I have a snarky and sarcastic temper and am often opinionated and judgmental.

I am only hoping that my idea will help to set a more inclusive, nonjudgemental culture here, of all places. If anyone feels that I'm too wordy, too controlling, mentally unstable, attention-seeking or addicted to fighting and chaos, as has been suggested publically and privately, all I can say is that your opinion of me is none of my business, and I will avoid it when I can. Don't you guys think that we do that enough to ourselves?

With the best of intentions,

Susan

PS: I look forward to everyone's feedback and will include it so long as it doesn't take any kind of potshot at anyone else for their opinions or anything else. I.e., you can say that you don't think it necessary or appropriate if you like, but if your comment assaults anyone else's value, or comes across as an attack rather than an opinion, I'll simply exclude it.

Tags: attacks, communication, dialogue, discussion, personal

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Comment by Susan French on December 21, 2011 at 2:53pm: Hi Bill,

Thanks. I had forgotten that. Great idea. Susan

Comment by Bill Kennedy on December 21, 2011 at 2:42pm: Hint: the Stop Following link at the bottom of each conversation can be your friend if you find email reminders about a particular conversation trigger you emotionally.

Comment by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on December 21, 2011 at 1:14pm: Happy Holidays Everyone...

Love and Light

Doreen Cohanim C.Ht, MM

Comment by Susan French on December 21, 2011 at 12:06pm: Doreen: if you're saying that my point is not concrete=true, then you're challenging it's validity, not just offering an opinion, but whatever.

There is an additional quote: "If you prick me, do I not bleed?" Is there a point to either of our posts other than to quibble.

Comment by Keithanthony on December 21, 2011 at 7:29am: Thank you Michael your apology accepted, I hope you and yours have a great Xmas holiday.

Keithanthony

Comment by Susan French on December 21, 2011 at 7:21am: Hi Aino,

Thank you for taking the time to post and for your kind and encouraging words. Even though I'm willing to speak up and take fire, I don't prefer it nor do I enjoy it.

Actually, you were one of the people I had in mind and I'm so glad you posted.

What might serve us is to see that we had a civil, respectful and, I hope, valuable conversation here. Only one post was disallowed. It seems simple and easy to me. We got to disagree without being disagreeable, so it can be done. Perhaps those who live vicariously off of the blood-sport are disappointed but those people are not my problem.

I love your quote: "Praise in Public and Chew Out in Private!"

Hopefully, if nothing else, the fighters will check themselves for awhile and perhaps the people who are fearful or disgusted or no longer interested will come back.

@Doreen. I'm not certain what you mean by "concrete?" Did you mean "incorrect?" Are you challenging my point or simply presenting an additional perspective?

Happy Holidays Everyone. We go into a time when many people dread getting together with family because fights break out. We had to make a rule in our large extended family that we don't discuss politics because we majorly divided and all very opinionated. Now our gatherings are peaceful.

We have a lot of very bright, creative, well-educated people with many, many things of interest to share. We even have plenty members who drink a little too much. Nobody seems to miss the screaming, door-slamming and screeching of tires. The group, which had thinned out, is coming back.

I hope that happens here. I come here to say "hi" and catch up with the many wonderful people i have met here. There really is NO other place that we all gather. There are 9445 members, as you pointed out. Maybe we can start to get to know them as well. I hope so.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm happy.

Nothing of value seems to be lost. We know we can gather without having to brace for the unpleasantness. It works for us.

Yay us????

Comment by Aino / Akpolarmom on December 21, 2011 at 12:07am: Susan I first met you on an other site I believe and I have always found and appreciated you for having a very gentile way of communicating, even if you do not agree with the other people.

You said "But I opted out of Hypnothoughts for a long time bc worthy and perhaps controversial discussions became a vessel for personal attacks. I have observed and had private conversations with others who have the same feeling. It has been my observation that we have lost contributions that would benefit us."

I could not agree more. I have been traveling and been quite busy, but must say that I had no real pull to get back into discussions with some of the people on here who were rude, and very much in a personal attack mode.

I wonder about the KA posts being referred to by ME that are no where to be found?? Where did it go?

I have learned a long time ago that one should "Praise in Public and Chew out in Private!" Something that seems to escape some people on this site the last year. I know that when I had a serious issue with some one I talked to that person in private.

I too have talked to many people who feel uneasy, some feel slighted by behavior of old members, and some simply do not come around any more. What good is 9445 members if no one wishes to participate, due to a hostile climate? I sometimes feel like a few more experienced hypnotists are feeling threatened by the 'younger' crowd coming up behind them (hypnosis experience age, not chronological age ), like they need to 'pay dues' before anything they say may be respected?

It some times seems like if one can not make one self look bigger by doing something good, the tactics is then to tear down the opponent to make them look smaller... kinda rotten way of doing it.

Thanks Susan for bringing this out, maybe it will clear the air a bit.

Comment by Doreen Cohanim C.Ht on December 20, 2011 at 11:25pm

Hi Susan, hope you having fun this holiday sessions. In regards to your comment and Maya Angelou quote.

"People will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." Is not concrete, because "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Eleanor Roosevelt.

Blessings!

Doreen Cohanim C.Ht, Mm

Comment by Susan French on December 20, 2011 at 4:40pm: Thank you for weighing in Scott. I think you do an amazing job and this is definitely one of the safest and most civil out there. Your cartoons are great and your points well taken.

Comment by Scott Sandland on December 20, 2011 at 2:11pm: This is something that we, the moderators, have had multiple discussions about over the years.

One of my visions and goals for this site was a place that felt safe and supportive. Overwhelmingly I think it does a good job of that, with obvious exceptions.

I think newcomers are treated warmly and with respect. In general people answer the questions and post their opinions with good intentions. Disagreements have to be a part of this site. If I asked each member to define hypnosis, we would have hundreds of responses, many of which are mutually exclusive. So at it's very core, this site is about something we don't agree on.

In fact, we can't even agree about how we should behave on here. Some people are much more professional while others are more casual and joke around. I think everyone can respect the 3 Simple Rules and for the most part we do a good job of it.

I think the trickiest part of this site is that relationships and history have developed among certain members, and that backstory can sometimes create a more charged environment. This happens in families and communities in the real world too. Moderating a message board is one thing. Moderating a couple thousand relationships is an entirely different thing.

I want people to disagree with each other on here, and feel safe doing so. Sometimes people take well intentioned advice personally. Sometimes people are short tempered and go on the attack first. Sometimes things are misconstrued via text. And so on...

Here are few images that I think sum this up pretty well

(these aren't directed at anyone. These are examples of what I perceive based on what I sometimes read)

Just my 2 cents fit into a couple thousand words,

Scott