Here is an interesting Read

Comment

Comment by Michael Ellner on March 18, 2010 at 1:43pm

You point is well taken James-

I was thinking the minority didn't buy into the set and setting or go into the trance - so they were able to decide -- I won't do this --
I guess I want to believe the majority were manipulated rather than lacking basic human values - That's right...

Michael E.

Comment by James Hazlerig - HypnosisAustin on March 18, 2010 at 6:52am

Michael--I'm happy to debate peacefully and respectfully with you any day.

When I said that Milgram showed that people don't have very strong morals, I didn't mean to imply that was the *only* thing he showed. :-)

I agree that Milgram showed that morals, ethics, and values can be state-dependent, and I agree that changing the setting (in hypnosis or otherwise) can get someone to do something they might not do in another context.

But let's not forget that a minority of Milgram's subjects refused to shock an innocent person. I interpret that to mean they had the moral fortitude to resist authority when it came into conflict with their values.

How I see it--

James

Comment by Michael Ellner on March 17, 2010 at 6:49pm

James wrote:
What Milgram's experiments (and many others) have shown is that most people just don't have very strong morals.

I respectfully disagree. I realize that James and I are looking at the same data and I realize that we coming to different conclusions. Where the hell is Ian Jay when you need him? Any way--

Hi James - I post in peace--
I get what you are saying and I'm thinking that the Milgram and other research demonstrated that peoples morals, ethics and values are state dependent -- Back to the old Harvard Crew's "Set and Setting" -- That's right...

RR was wondering: >>> if this puts a new spin on the, " you can't make someone do something against their will or that they would not normally do while under hypnosis debate"!br />
I think it does - When people are in any of the social "Authority Rules" or Don't Rock The Boat" trances it comes with a new set of values and behaviors. That's _____, when people are hypnotized one can change the set and setting and doing so automatically changes their values and behaviors...

Just my opinion-

Michael E.

Michael E.

Comment by James Hazlerig - HypnosisAustin on March 17, 2010 at 5:13pm

I saw a "Candid Camera" type show in which participants were told they were auditioning for a reality show, the name of which would be revealed later. They were asked if they'd be willing to eat raw meat as part of the audition, and many of them did. After they chowed on plates of unidentified raw meat, a banner with the name of the imaginary reality show was uncovered. It read "CANNIBALS!" in giant letters. The participants were told they had just eaten human meat as part of their application.

Of course, they hadn't. It was intended as a prank.

The amazing part is that most of the participants still wanted to be on the reality show, even if it involved cannibalism . . .

To answer your question, Richard--the show doesn't add anything to the debate that Milgram hadn't already. When I explain hypnosis, I'm careful to say that it can't make people violate a strongly held moral belief. What Milgram's experiments (and many others) have shown is that most people just don't have very strong morals.

Comment by Jesus Gonzalez on March 17, 2010 at 12:44pm

If they gave me money to do it, I would do it gladly. Maybe I would regret a lil bit, but with that money I would forget everything I did right there.

I think that this happens because, the voice of the authorative person, is "injected" in some way as a part of the internal dialog of the person, and this way he/she filter the command with his experiences, and behave congruently to it. In this case I think that there is no filter, unless the person is critically thinking, and still thinking critically, you could do it too. In my opinion it's irrelative.

In this case the fear is an unconscious response, so the critical factor is who's acting here.

I'm confused, sorry if I haven't explained myself OK. (and for my bad english too :P)

Jesus

Comment by Michael Ellner on March 17, 2010 at 12:22pm

Very interesting... That's right...

Thanks for sharing this RR-

ME

Comment by Hugh Cole on March 17, 2010 at 10:58am

The Milgram experiments choreographed and set to music, perhaps even English subtitles ....with a smooth french voice over .. How nice. Perhaps there are more exciting ways to kill folks but this is educational so the kiddies can watch and learn something too. I fear Peter is right ... The more things change the more they remain the same ... Think I will stick to the beheading of Month Club. Electrocution is so last year and what with Alice going through the Looking Glass and all that ... Beheading is "Tre chic".

Comment by Pete & Lorraine on March 17, 2010 at 10:13am

Christians,Gladiators,lions. Stocks public executions, holocaust, Yugoslavia, all comes to mind, funny how things change and remain exactly the same.
I guess it would be worse if the studio audience were unaware it was acted.

Comment by John Cleesattel on March 17, 2010 at 9:20am

Wow.. thanks Richard!