the Free Online Hypnosis Community
Stage Hypnosis Safety and the Insurance industry
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! UPDATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well this last weekend a secret meeting took place headed up by Susan Rosen she brought together a group of Hypnotists with promises of fame and fortune (OK that is a gross exaggeration). Actually she presented her case with a bit of a sales pitch that simply stated that for 3000.00 dollars a piece these hypnotists could become licensed trainers for her program for stage safety and could recoup their money by charging 295.00 a person for training them in stage safety, they would also be able to leverage to everyone that they were certified by Mrs Rosen (who to general knowledge does not hold any instructor certificates with any certifying body or operate a state certified school)
I was also made aware that as part of her pitch that these people could then use this designation to put them selves over other people in gaining jobs because for the 3000.00 they were now certified in stage safety training.
It was also put out that the high cost of certification was due to Mrs Rosen's need to recoup 14,000 of her own dollars... For what is unknown....
What is known is the meeting did not go the way it was planned and it left a very bad taste in the mouths of several top Hypnotists who felt that this was some sort of scam. Due to the nature of this I will not state any names and if people want to come forward of their own accord to express their opinion then that is in their bailiwick, not mine.
Also it has been repeated to me several times that Stephanie Weiss is prepared to drop all hypnotists from her policy completely...
With the feeling that we are being put over a barrel by essentially the sole provider of affordable insurance many people who have called me have said they are not only scared of losing their coverage, they are also scared that they will not be able to get insurance and will be forced out of business!
Personally I have done my best to assist in moderating this and play to both sides for a fair resolution. I have been told that Stephanie does not want to have any sort of conversation to come up with a solution that makes everyone happy. A sort of my way or the highway approach.. I have been a good customer of this firm for many years and nave never had a claim nor complaint. So to me this has been a terrible reproach.
Today I am working on a solution so that we have another choice in provider with competitive rates and A++ rating so that we are not stuck with one draconian choice. I am not a insurance agent nor am I going to be... Just a moderator that will work to find a quality solution for all of us that does not raise complaint nor put one in charge of all.
Thank you everyone for your support with this
Justin James
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! END UPDATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So if you have seen my posts over time you will know that I have considerable issue with poorly trained stage performers.
Now I will apologize to Lee Darrow for possibly grandstanding him on this issue, however we have a problem folks..
Specialty Insurance Formerly Clowns of the US has put a policy in place that Stage Hypnotists must go through a safety course before they are granted insurance through their company.
In so doing they have contracted with a stage hypnotist by the Name of Susan Rosen To not only direct the program but administer the testing. Now this in its self is not the problem.
The Problem is that Susan Rosen is a direct competitor to every other stage hypnotist in the market. Also she holds the position of being Entertainment Chair for the WFA (Western Fairs Association) and on the board of directors for the AFA (Arizona Fairs Association.
She is in direct competition with other stage hypnotists for booking venues and holding this role will be put not only in a very powerful position however she will then be able to unfairly leverage herself due to insurance requirements needed to perform in many markets.....
I have gone directly to the company and suggested that the training program that is developed be certified by several schools and not just the ones that teach stage hypnosis.
I have also not only suggested that this program be taken out of the hands of any one individual but be presented so that the hypnotist could take the program online and take an exam..
To that effect I have offered my services for no charge to assist in developing the online portion.......................................
I need your help guys... We need several high standing schools and potentially other certifying bodies to edit this when it hits the streets and to put a mark of approval it it.....
I also believe that we need to stand strong as a community and not allow any one individual with no checks or balances attached to run something such as this..
This needs to be certified by the pros.. But out of our hands for the administration of it...
Lee I know you want to jump up and down but now is not the time... We need your help.
Specialty Insurance, is the primary insurer of stage hypnotist's in the USA and stage hypnotist's are their major source of claims... Due to the fact that many schools are teaching inadequate material or training people insufficiently to perform safely....
For you Hypnotherapists out there who do not like stage hypnosis or could not care about this issue... Let me inform you that done wrong this will effect you and potentially your ability to get insured or to even work as a hypnotherapist.....
Stage Hypnosis not only is a great form of entertainment it is also one of the reasons that Hypnosis is alive and well today. We serve as the first experience that people have with hypnosis, and most all of although you do have to deal with fears brought on by performers you have people wanting to know more and inquiring for service many times due to the fact that they saw a show at some point in the past...
NOTE::::: Please do not Call the agency with questions or rants.....
Stephanie Weiss Owner of Specialty Insurance has made it clear that she is attempting this to help us straighten out a problem and if this program does not work she will not insure stage hypnotists again!
I want her program to work and I do not want her discontinuing Insurance for our profession ..
We Need to self police our industry and in doing so
I am looking for people who will come forward (Professional Schools and Instructors) who will assist in certifying this program at no personal gain to them self............................
If you want to find a way to make money off of this again it will cause a conflict of interest..
We will all make money by staying Insured!
I design web sites and content on the side however if you are a designer and can donate time and expertise that may be helpful
Lets make a list of Vital topics...
Lee you can be instrumental with that.. Again it has to be a donation...
The personal gain that we receive is the ability to stay insured and to assist a wonderful lady who is fighting for us in her own way to keep us in business..............
If we as a group jump down her throat and complain then we greatly risk her shutting down this program for good............
I am insured myself through this agency so have a direct interest in seeing this program successful....
I also have a direct interest in making certain that my competitors are performing safely. So do all of us....
So lets brainstorm this, lets not discuss problems or politic, lets come up with solutions so that we do not create something that could put us out of business or create precedent for restrictive legislation..
Again please respond with solutions... We do not need to rehash the stupidity of past events or the legal problems of other states..
With greatest respect to the community and my peers,
Justin James
CEO
The Hypnosis Company
PO BX 35980
Las Vegas NV 89133
www.thehypnosiscompany.com
Tags: insurance, james, stage, comedy, for, hypnosis, hypnotists, justin
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Lee Darrow on -
John, Justin, it seems that we are all agreed that Stupidity is the ONLY element in the Universe more common than Hydrogen!
;)
Awww, come on, guys, I had to lighten this up a BIT!!!
Lee Darrow, C.H.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Knight on -
Justin, Lee, et al, count me in on this. I have a limited amount of web design experience and would be willing to help out there as much as I can. At the very least I can donate some web space for the web pages and maybe do a little designing. As an experienced stage hypnotist, I would be happy to join in on the development of a safety program, etc.
While I agree with Lee about the questionable legality of the requirements, I stand more with Justin on this one. At the moment, Specialty Insurance is the only really affordable insurance for stage hypnotists. If they get upset, they simply stop covering stage hypnotists and we are all up a very smelly creek sans paddle. (While I have no real evidence to support this, my gut feeling is that Specialty Insurance would not terribly mind if they dropped insurance for stage hypnotists. If I am right, our leverage with them is pretty much nil.) Once an affordable alternative is in place (Go, Lee, Go!) then we can consider our options. For now, I believe the best choice is to play along as much as necessary while we establish our own ethics and safety program and explore insurance alternatives.
I also agree that having the program in the hands of one individual, no matter how honest or ethical she may be or how pure her intent, sets a very dangerous precedence. I agree none of us should profit from this training. It should all be voluntary with clear standards that limit the politics.
Paul Knight, CHt
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Permalink Reply by Hypnogoddess Dreamsender on -
Justin, I'm not in the US any more, so I have no idea what, if anything I could do to help.
I fully understand all the concerns, but you should take a look at the antiquated Hypnotism
Act of 1952, and see what stage hypnotists here have to deal with! I am not a stage hypnotist,
but in doing a stage performance in GB, one not only has to provide documentation of insurance
to any town council one applies to in order to perform here, but one absolutely cannot by law,
mention the therapeutic benefits that may be derived from hypnosis during the course of a
performance.
In addition, I have found at least one city that forbids any type of hypnosis show
to be presented within its jurisdiction! I will keep an eye on this developing situation...but
be thankful that in the US, you don't have to deal with a law of this nature, nor the fact that
hypnotists can be and have been successfully sued in England for doing mental damage
to subjects.
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Permalink Reply by Justin James on -
We have had many penalizing laws some of which made it a felony offense to perform Hypnosis in public in one state and some very strange one in others.. Most have been repealed however there are newer ones on the books and bills put out by the psychology community that want to banish Lay hypnotists completely. Today our job is to make something good come out of this...
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Permalink Reply by Hypnogoddess Dreamsender on
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Ahh yes...the ASCH and their ilk.
The felony would most likely be
Kansas, if I remember correctly.
And Indiana is just as bad...
Then we have New York,
in which one cannot claim
to be a "hypnotherapist"
without a heathcare related
board licence to match.
I am sure there are other
jurisdictions which either
have, or will follow suit.
These legal wrangles
were one major influence
on my decision to move
to England, rather than
move my new husband
to the US in 2005.
And now over here we
have a would-be Milton
Erickson clone who is
lobbying for worldwide
hypnosis legislation...let
us hope this person does
not get as far as he would
wish!
Once, hypnosis was so much
the field of the lay professional
that a doctor could have his
license revoked if found using
hypnosis in his practice...MHE
and his acolytes have turned
the situation around 180 degrees.
I hope we can reverse it back
eventually...
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Permalink Reply by Brian David Phillips on -
My understanding is that Kansas lifted their ban of stage hypnosis a few years ago . . . http://briandavidphillips.typepad.com/brian/2004/09/stage_hypnosis_... . . . I am not aware of it coming back.
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Permalink Reply by Hypnogoddess Dreamsender on
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Hi Brian...
I was only adding a "footnote" of state designation
to Justin's comment; he did say most of these laws
had been repealed. If you check my post, you will
see I said nothing about any law being reinstated.
Have a great weekend.
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Permalink Reply by jon on -
Hi Dreamsender.
In addition to the restrictions on stage hypnosis you mention some Councils like Walthamstow in london request details of certification. Brighton and Hove Council appear to
prevent any public performances ( in non members clubs etc ), and London University sites
appear to have an ongoing ban on stage hypnotists.
My first fun introduction to and experience of hypnosis was at stage performances in my teens, it just wouldn't happen these days.
Best Wishes
Jon in London Uk
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Permalink Reply by Hypnogoddess Dreamsender on
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Jon,
I only moved here in 2005; so please tell me...is there
actually a certification in stage hypnosis available in
the UK, or do these councils want stage performers
certed as hypnotherapists before they will be allowed
to perform? And the city with the ban I mentioned
in my earlier post is Leicester.
Best wishes to you as well,
Hypnogoddess Dreamsender
(I am indeed a C.HT.)
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Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - HypnosisGurus.com on -
I spent some time today talking to Susan Rosen and others on the phone, and wish now that we had more than 15 minutes to edit our posts here on HypnoThoughts.
Updated Thoughts:
While I do wish that a better safety training system existed, including a course offered directly by the insurance agency through a website, video or text, I am now convinced that much of the opposition to the current proposal came from an email recently sent out by another hypnotist, which indicated an ‘East coast and West coast "gatekeeper" of safety policy’ or some such thing – and I think that really rubbed some people the wrong way.
The reality of the situation in this:
Insurance claims are too high because people do dumb stuff – and, the way to keep costs down is through education.
When I spoke to Susan, she made clear that her intention was not to try to educate every hypnotist West of the Mississippi, but to have a way to insure that all stage hypnotists actually get the safety education they need.
The live class, as a one-time requirement (once, forever, and that’s it), does not seem so extreme to me, and Susan’s intention is to make the materials available to other trainers, in an effort to ensure that everyone can take the class, even those in Podunk USA.
Unfortunately, for many reasons, there is no single way to manage this situation to please everyone.
At this time, the answer is:
Stage hypnotists must complete the live safety course, or hypnotists will be dropped from the Specialty Insurance company, or, premiums will go to $500 a year or more for ALL performers.
As you can see, the easiest thing for Specialty Insurance to do would be to just drop hypnotists altogether, and strong oppositional voices against taking the live class will probably make this a faster reality.
I do agree with the "ideals" I expressed in my previous post, that there is perhaps a better way to do this - but at this point, the existing plan seems to be the compromise the insurance company has found that will work. Maybe next year, or two years from now, or in 10 years there will be a more perfect solution.
I will stay out of the fray regarding if it’s legal for the insurance commissions, or who has rights to the material, etc. Those are things I am not knowledgeable about.
But I do know this: People do unsafe things, and accidents do happen, and claims can be reduced by education - and taking this course as it is currently proposed, while not ideal, is probably a good move to insure our insurability – and who knows, we might even learn something new….
I hope that in the future I am slower to react and that I talk to more people and get both sides before posting. The more ideal situation would probably be to have a course offered as part of the insurance policy itself, as opposed to by personalities of competing trainers – however, reality exists, and Susan does not seem to me to have a double agenda here or a motive that will compete with others.
I’m still trying to sort it out in my mind, and trying not to jump the gun. If nothing else, I am glad for this discussion on safety, an issue I will become even more attentive to in my teachings and in my own shows, and hope others will as well.
~ Richard
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Permalink Reply by Justin James on
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???? Ok, you lost me here Richard. No Offense Susan may wear wings of white however She books shows for herself at the same venues that many of us compete for on a annual basis.
??? Where do you not find that a direct conflict of interest?????
Justin James.....
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Permalink Reply by Lee Darrow on
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Actually, the EASIEST and MOST LEGAL thing for Specialty Insurance to do would be to do a full review of the 34 paid claims that have been made in the last four years and to issue guidelines that address those issues, specifically.
The proposed program that they have on the table right now, STILL requires each State's Commissioner of Insurance to review and approve of the safety program that they plan to require AND that said course HAS TO BE UNIFORM as well as COMPLETELY FREE FROM CONFLICT OF INTEREST on the parts of the people who are administering the exams.
This is NOT the case with the current proposal and could lead to serious repercussions in a number of states, simply due to Specialty Insurance's seeming lack of sue diligence in meeting the various state's requirements for putting such a program into place.
Unfortunately, Specialty Insurance has put itself into the unfortunate position of now having made agreements with certain parties, it seems, that they are bound to honor, which makes coming up with a viable fallback position for them, difficult, to say the least.
As I have repeatedly said, do NOT want to see anyone lose their coverage or their preferred rates, but until I see something from the insurance COMPANY, in this case Indiana Insurance, I have to question this whole rate issue, as nothing has come from them, as the insurer, directly, at all, on this matter and it is not allowed for an insurance agency to attach any additional charges, fees or other costs to any insurance coverage under the law.
I really hate to be the one to keep having to point this out, but, to be honest, this whole situation could have been handled better - and the agency should have known the rules for putting an educational program into place and followed them BEFORE announcing the requirement in the first place! This is material that is covered in every basic insurance licensing program that I have ever seen - and in every TYPE of licensure class that I have ever taken, whether it was for Life, Health and Accident or what-have-you. And, in every course, I have taken, the other major rule is: "If you are going to do ANYTHING, you HAVE TO GET THE DEPARTMENT OF COMPLIANCE TO SIGN OFF ON IT< FIRST! And that's a rule every insurance company has and it applies to application forms, brochures, advertising, the use of professional titles and even what you can and cannot list yourself under in the Yellow Pages.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow,
Certified Hypnotist
Licensed & Bonded Insurance Broker in Illinois (only)
Licenses held for:
Life Insurance
Health and Accident Insurance
(this post is not a solicitation for insurance business, no agent will call on you should you respond without your specific request)
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