the Free Online Hypnosis Community
Erotic Hypnosis, hypnoporn, fetish, and other unspeakable topics
One of the top issues being debated in our industry is the acceptance of "erotic" or "Fetish" hypnosis. In recent years, many porn sites have incorporated hypnosis as the "gimmick" they use to attract customers, just as they have also incorporated hot girls on motorcycles, leather wear, or high heels as the key focus, in order to differentiate their porn from others. Admittedly, these websites and sellers of porn DO have a high profile, selling "hypnoporn" in the same way as any other porn site markets a product, and in most cases, with fake hypnosis anyway.
However, this note is not about porn, because while "hypnoporn" may attract what some deem as negative or undesirable attention to erotic hypnosis, I want to discuss erotic hypnosis as a legitimate study or experience.
Sex is unquestionably the domain of marriage and family therapy, and I am a licensed marriage and family therapist. About 13 years ago, I first learned about stage hypnosis and saw my first stage hypnosis show at an "adult" comedy club. Although I had been doing clinical hypnosis since grad school, what I practiced was nothing like what the stage hypnotist did…. He had people simulating sex with chairs, experiencing orgasms on-stage with just the shake of a hand, and manifesting sexual phenomena in seconds.
I have to admit, I was SHOCKED!
Therefore, I immediately went to my clinical supervisor, an Ericksonian trained hypnotist and psychologist, who promptly educated me of the 'evils' of stage hypnosis.
Nevertheless, I kept thinking, “If that stage hypnotist can get people on stage to respond sexually in mere moments, how come in traditional therapy it takes me months to deal with sexual dysfunction? What if a marriage and family therapist could bring the power of stage hypnosis to couples counseling and provide solutions to sexual performance issues in one session, rather than seven months of insight-oriented or cognitive-behavioral therapy!!??"
And so I disregarded my supervisor’s warnings and began my studies of stage hypnosis - and today, I practice both stage hypnosis and clinical hypnosis, as well as professional psychotherapy. Hypnosis, wahtever its label new age, mystical, erotic, stage, "clinical", medical, is still hypnosis, and every branch of hypnosis can benefit from an understanding and respect for the other branches. Each has much to offer.
Back to the original subject: Erotic hypnosis.
Let us not mistake sellers of porn using hypnosis as their sales gimmick for what erotic hypnosis really is. It seems that some of the hypnosis organizations have recently chosen to take a stand, essentially blackballing any hypnotist who offers or engages in "erotic hypnosis."
Is this really a good idea?
Our profession is a big tent, and under this tent you will find those who practice past-life regression, medical anesthesiology, psychiatry, sports performance, prosperity enhancement and more, because hypnosis is effective for impacting these issues. It can be used for cancer treatment, recovery from surgery, pre-surgical preparation, learning disorders, test-taking performance, health and wellness, decision-making, focus and concentration, the alleviation of fears and anxiety, therapeutic relaxation, management of depression, and many more things as well. Of course, lets not forget smoking cessation and weight loss.
As “professionals,” should we avoid the "erotic" side of hypnosis? In seventh grade Science class, we learned that there are seven systems of the body - and one of them is the REPRODUCTIVE or sexual system. So, according to seventh grade science, essentially one/seventh of who we are is sexual.
I will state that hypnosis, when properly done, brings a sense of pleasure and wellbeing, and that sex itself is hypnotic and produces a trance state. So, should professionals avoid “erotic hypnosis,” because it appeals to the base biological drives and pleasures of who we are as individuals? I think it is actually impossible. Since trance is natural phenomena, everyone in the world is already practicing erotic hypnosis!
Should professional hypnotists impose a blanket ban on "erotic hypnosis" because some adults who enjoy sex from a very basic need/drive or carnal perspective, with perhaps different moral convictions than the majority, may bring embarrassment or attention to hypnosis?
Now I am a therapist, and I have certainly shared my biases already in the very way that I have written this article. But for me, the applications of hypnosis to enhancing couples intimacy, sexual satisfaction or even helping people understand or experience fantasies seems healthy. And perhaps it is precisely because I am a therapist that I feel no threat from those whose sexual behavior is different than mine, but value trance and its application to enhancing sexual enjoyment.
Until the Internet, things like "hypno fetishes" were probably relegated to the private discussion of a few, and most people never thought of joining a group, sharing techniques or ideas regarding sexual enhancement through hypnosis, or even promoting hypnosis in a sexual manor. But today, at Amazon.com, my second best selling item is "Hypnotic Sex: Igniting Sexual Passion in the Bedroom by Learning to Hypnotize your Lover." And despite the catchy title, being a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and a Certified Clinical Hypnotist, I created it for couples to enjoy each other to the fullest.
And isn’t that the proper use of hypnosis?
Sure, "hypnoporn" sites often look tacky. I have never produced, consulted or worked with a porn site. But I do think Erotic Hypnosis does have a place in our profession, because it has a place in our real lives. To exclude this as a topic for professionals, or to fail to recognize that it can be utilized by professionals to help couples share all that life has to offer, is quite limiting.
As a final point, if some in the hypnosis community choose to excommunicate "erotic hypnotists" -by whose standards to we do this? Undoubtedly, much of the "hypnoporn" is fake; hypnosis is merely the gimmick. But in real stage hypnosis, do we say that on stage, PG is too much? Or R? Or X-rated? And by whose standards will these ratings come from? A G-rated show will not SELL in Las Vegas - it is an adult playground where ‘adult’ themes are the standard - even though in reality, the most ‘adult’ show in Vegas is no stronger than any R-rated movie.
As far as erotic hypnosis for lovers goes, by whose standards to we judge what is appropriate or not? It seems to me that excluding any group of hypnotists based on a perceived "indiscretion" sets the stage for fragmentation rather than creativity. Certain organizations forbid stage hypnosis in its entirety, and this stifles creativity. I became a much more effective marriage and family therapist AFTER becoming a stage hypnotist.
Excluding the reasoned study or demonstration of erotic hypnosis won’t make it go away. After all, everytime anyone has sex, they have entered a trance state. And, by embracing erotic hypnosis, perhaps we can take it back from the hucksters faking it to sell porn....
Any thoughts?
However, this note is not about porn, because while "hypnoporn" may attract what some deem as negative or undesirable attention to erotic hypnosis, I want to discuss erotic hypnosis as a legitimate study or experience.
Sex is unquestionably the domain of marriage and family therapy, and I am a licensed marriage and family therapist. About 13 years ago, I first learned about stage hypnosis and saw my first stage hypnosis show at an "adult" comedy club. Although I had been doing clinical hypnosis since grad school, what I practiced was nothing like what the stage hypnotist did…. He had people simulating sex with chairs, experiencing orgasms on-stage with just the shake of a hand, and manifesting sexual phenomena in seconds.
I have to admit, I was SHOCKED!
Therefore, I immediately went to my clinical supervisor, an Ericksonian trained hypnotist and psychologist, who promptly educated me of the 'evils' of stage hypnosis.
Nevertheless, I kept thinking, “If that stage hypnotist can get people on stage to respond sexually in mere moments, how come in traditional therapy it takes me months to deal with sexual dysfunction? What if a marriage and family therapist could bring the power of stage hypnosis to couples counseling and provide solutions to sexual performance issues in one session, rather than seven months of insight-oriented or cognitive-behavioral therapy!!??"
And so I disregarded my supervisor’s warnings and began my studies of stage hypnosis - and today, I practice both stage hypnosis and clinical hypnosis, as well as professional psychotherapy. Hypnosis, wahtever its label new age, mystical, erotic, stage, "clinical", medical, is still hypnosis, and every branch of hypnosis can benefit from an understanding and respect for the other branches. Each has much to offer.
Back to the original subject: Erotic hypnosis.
Let us not mistake sellers of porn using hypnosis as their sales gimmick for what erotic hypnosis really is. It seems that some of the hypnosis organizations have recently chosen to take a stand, essentially blackballing any hypnotist who offers or engages in "erotic hypnosis."
Is this really a good idea?
Our profession is a big tent, and under this tent you will find those who practice past-life regression, medical anesthesiology, psychiatry, sports performance, prosperity enhancement and more, because hypnosis is effective for impacting these issues. It can be used for cancer treatment, recovery from surgery, pre-surgical preparation, learning disorders, test-taking performance, health and wellness, decision-making, focus and concentration, the alleviation of fears and anxiety, therapeutic relaxation, management of depression, and many more things as well. Of course, lets not forget smoking cessation and weight loss.
As “professionals,” should we avoid the "erotic" side of hypnosis? In seventh grade Science class, we learned that there are seven systems of the body - and one of them is the REPRODUCTIVE or sexual system. So, according to seventh grade science, essentially one/seventh of who we are is sexual.
I will state that hypnosis, when properly done, brings a sense of pleasure and wellbeing, and that sex itself is hypnotic and produces a trance state. So, should professionals avoid “erotic hypnosis,” because it appeals to the base biological drives and pleasures of who we are as individuals? I think it is actually impossible. Since trance is natural phenomena, everyone in the world is already practicing erotic hypnosis!
Should professional hypnotists impose a blanket ban on "erotic hypnosis" because some adults who enjoy sex from a very basic need/drive or carnal perspective, with perhaps different moral convictions than the majority, may bring embarrassment or attention to hypnosis?
Now I am a therapist, and I have certainly shared my biases already in the very way that I have written this article. But for me, the applications of hypnosis to enhancing couples intimacy, sexual satisfaction or even helping people understand or experience fantasies seems healthy. And perhaps it is precisely because I am a therapist that I feel no threat from those whose sexual behavior is different than mine, but value trance and its application to enhancing sexual enjoyment.
Until the Internet, things like "hypno fetishes" were probably relegated to the private discussion of a few, and most people never thought of joining a group, sharing techniques or ideas regarding sexual enhancement through hypnosis, or even promoting hypnosis in a sexual manor. But today, at Amazon.com, my second best selling item is "Hypnotic Sex: Igniting Sexual Passion in the Bedroom by Learning to Hypnotize your Lover." And despite the catchy title, being a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and a Certified Clinical Hypnotist, I created it for couples to enjoy each other to the fullest.
And isn’t that the proper use of hypnosis?
Sure, "hypnoporn" sites often look tacky. I have never produced, consulted or worked with a porn site. But I do think Erotic Hypnosis does have a place in our profession, because it has a place in our real lives. To exclude this as a topic for professionals, or to fail to recognize that it can be utilized by professionals to help couples share all that life has to offer, is quite limiting.
As a final point, if some in the hypnosis community choose to excommunicate "erotic hypnotists" -by whose standards to we do this? Undoubtedly, much of the "hypnoporn" is fake; hypnosis is merely the gimmick. But in real stage hypnosis, do we say that on stage, PG is too much? Or R? Or X-rated? And by whose standards will these ratings come from? A G-rated show will not SELL in Las Vegas - it is an adult playground where ‘adult’ themes are the standard - even though in reality, the most ‘adult’ show in Vegas is no stronger than any R-rated movie.
As far as erotic hypnosis for lovers goes, by whose standards to we judge what is appropriate or not? It seems to me that excluding any group of hypnotists based on a perceived "indiscretion" sets the stage for fragmentation rather than creativity. Certain organizations forbid stage hypnosis in its entirety, and this stifles creativity. I became a much more effective marriage and family therapist AFTER becoming a stage hypnotist.
Excluding the reasoned study or demonstration of erotic hypnosis won’t make it go away. After all, everytime anyone has sex, they have entered a trance state. And, by embracing erotic hypnosis, perhaps we can take it back from the hucksters faking it to sell porn....
Any thoughts?
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Bob Brown, CHt, CNLP on -
Personally I draw the line as my line. I know I can't keep you and others happy so I work within my own ethics.
Have a great one...
bob
-
Permalink Reply by Lee Darrow on -
Bob, I am agreeing that recreational hypnosis should be just that. The Supreme Court of the United States ruled (and I am somewhat oversimplifying here) that what goes on in the bedroom is of no concern to law enforcement unless it violates criminal statutes like rape, murder, etc.
It's not a matter of keeping me happy. That is not an issue here and, in my alleged mind, never was. My apologies if anyone ever took my opinions that way.
My concerns are based on what I have heard and seen from other licensed professionals in related mental health fields and from legislators and clergy who always seem to me on one sort of a morals rampage or another.
I hope that it's obvious that I do not want to see hypnosis become a "target of opportunity" for one of these rampages and the ensuing bad publicity and legislative restrictions that could and probably would follow such a thing.
In 1989, there was a House Resolution to remove the definition of being a religion from all neo-pagan groups in the United States. It failed, but only after a very few people, myself being one of them, started a campaign to stop that Bill. The legislation was pushed in, under the radar and damn-near passed.
I would hate to see something like that happen to hypnosis - or worse, have a bunch of medical and psychiatric professionals manage to get air time on Oprah, the View and Nightline, bashing all "lay" hypnotists as being part and parcel of the erotic hypnosis movement and claiming that it is "bad" for America and the children and ... well, we all know the rest of the fear rant that people like that use.
Many people find hypnosis has an erotic overtone and that should be something that's left to their private affairs.
But there are people out there who want to keep anyone, anywhere, from having any fun, at all, unless they have fun only in the way that their group says they are allowed to have fun in (if you will pardon the dangling participle).
My point is that we, as a community, do what we can to make sure that those who would attack us and tear the entire hypnosis profession down, don't have any added ability to do so.
There's an old military expression that fits where I am coming from on this - "Don't give your enemy ammunition to shoot you with."
All I want is for all of us to do is be aware of what is going on and to make sure that we have thought through any possible attacks that could be made on us and have our countermeasures in place.
I hope that this clarifies my stance.
Lee Darrow, C.H.
-
Permalink Reply by Brian David Phillips on -
I would suggest that there is a difference between using hypnosis as a therapeutic modality and using it as a recreational modality. When erotic hypnosis is used as a therapeutic modality, then folks are bound by whatever ethical codes govern their professions . . . and therapeutic processes to help with sexual issues are certainly NOT unethical in and of themselves. When using hypnosis purely in a recreational capacity, most of the "therapeutic" constraints do not come into play beyond those consenting adults should be following otherwise (safe, sane, consensual, and mind your own business if it's not hurting anyone else sort of way). Lee, while for you it seems the line is to err on the side of overcaution in relation to erotic hypnosis, I would stand on the other side. I would rather embrace a community that accepts erotic hypnotists just as it accepts stage hypnotists and recreational hypnotists along with hypnotherapists as by doing so allows that community to mentor and show support and cultivate safe practices. Ostracizing a part of the community will not make the practice go away, rather, it will send it underground where unsafe practices can flourish. The same groups that you fear might be offended by the acceptance of an ethical approach to erotic hypnosis are also the same groups that already ban stage hypnosis . . . should we give up performance and entertainment hypnosis shows merely because someone else has a backward idea of what they are or how hypnosis should be presented to the public? I think not.
All the best,
Brian
-
Permalink Reply by Bob Brown, CHt, CNLP on
-
always a mind of sound reason...
-
Permalink Reply by Hugh Cole on
-
Very well said Brian, I think this is a rehash of one of the previous threads on morality. and a perfect example of my original question.... If we are going to start making moral judgements... whose morals are we going to use? Recreational erotic hypnosis,,, following said safe and sane guidelines between consenting adults is no one elses business. and believe it or not makes for a wonderful bonding experience and an overall stronger relationship. How do other professions see us.. as a threat .. even if you put all the erotic hypnotists on the continent in a boat and sank it off the coast of Hawaii.... we would still be a threat and treated (ultimately) in that way. So forgive me but I am going to earn my respect one client sucess at a time, while my girlfriend continues to be the "happiest Lady on the planet" (or so she tells me,,, how do you measure that sort of thing?)
Hugh Cole
Texas Tranceman
-
Permalink Reply by David Ebel on -
Well written. As a counselor and clergy, I have couples that embarassingly come to me because they need some kind of help in their interelation and sex life as married. The are not looking for porn or sick and twisted practices ... they are looking for what is missing and wishing I had the skill to help them find it. Hopefully, as I become trained in hypnotism, I will be able to add this to my skill set. In my world we are not worried with Vegas or R verses X shows.. but couples struggling to overcome previous life scars that are hindering their basic love life.
Well stated! Thanks... very informative.
-
Permalink Reply by Rev.William Mitchell M.Div.,BCH,CI on -
Thanks for the comment. My professional training included work with Rabbi Dr. Edwin Friedman author Generation to Generation Family Systems in Church and Synagogue,
he was an acclaimed Marriage and Family therapist ,a disciple of Dr. Murray Bowen.
What denominational background do you come from?
William
-
Permalink Reply by Robert Burns on -
Hi Chris, What you wrote is so true. I know the mind (brain) is the biggest sex organ of all. The majority of people have no clue whats going on in the media. The media i e magazine advertisements, TV advertisements, and any other form of visual media uses sex to promote sales because it works. We're all conditioned by the media. Good work Christine.
-
Permalink Reply by Nicholas Fittante MFT,CHt on -
Dear Richard,
I totally agree. I have enjoyed watching your youtube training vedios. I enjoy your style.
Would like to chat about your thoughts and experiences as a hypnotherapist.
Stay well and much continued success.
Nicholas Fittante MFT
-
Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - HypnosisGurus.com on -
Than you Nicholas, good to see other MFT's here! You can always email me or call...
I am leaving the country until Oct 1, but will be around after than and by email while gone..
-
Permalink Reply by Lee Darrow on
-
Okay, it's 800lb gorilla time.
"Seven states have enacted licensure statutes that specifically provide for disciplinary action for sexual activity, and others address the issue of a physician's having sexual relations with a patient under the general categories of "unprofessional conduct" or "moral turpitude." The range of sanctions available to licensure boards provide greater flexibility in adjusting the penalty to fit the degree of violation." - source: http://www.network54.com/Forum/173502/thread/1095877163/1095877163/... on the USMLE (United States Medical Law and Ethics site)
The penalties range from loss of license and fines to prison sentences and even being listed on the sexual offender's lists. That is a pretty serious set of risks.
We, as hypnotherapists, fall under these statutes in several of these states. Prosecution is possible even with someone who is a former client (Illinois and Florida being outstanding examples of that draconian and, IMHO rather medieval, law).
While the citation above is from a thread specifically relating to orthopedic physicians, it also relates to psychiatrists and, in most of the states noted, any "mental health care provider."
That includes hypnotists according to no less than three litigating attorneys I have discussed this matter with, at length.
Now, before someone goes and says, Lee's being paranoid again, or that I am playing "morals cop," please understand that this is not my position at all. What goes on between consenting adults in the privacy of their own homes (or in the privacy of their online connections, for that matter) is their business (unless other crimes are being committed, like rape, theft or the like, obviously).
But what I am saying is that we, as a profession should do is take a long, serious look at how erotic hypnosis looks to the uninformed public, how it might play to the uninformed ears of the financial, political, insurance and even religious communities and then decide where to go with it from there, if anywhere. The recent dust-up with Visa and MasterCard regarding payments for certain hypnosis-related products is, in my opinion, the tip of the iceberg.
I work, on the side, in the insurance industry. Insurance is all about risk management.
With erotic hypnosis, there seem to be a number of possible risks that range from politicians looking for an "easy target" to whip up public support in an election year ("we need to regulate this sinister form of mind control to make sure that only licensed and safe medical professionals can use it so our children are protected from these unlicensed and unregulated charlatans!" - a rant not unfamiliar to those who read the posts on alt.hypnosis) to a ticked-off spouse in a divorce who brings charges of professional impropriety against their spouse and, thus, unintentionally brings down legislative control that none of us wants all the way to Oprah deciding that this is "bad" and that "something needs to be done about it!"
As opposed to the benefits of private recreation. And, as someone who firmly believes in civil liberties, I am opposed to regulation in this field as much as, if not more so, than just about anyone here and have actively fought it for about 40 years.
But the risks are there.
The real question, in my alleged mind, is " how do we, as a profession, control and minimize them?"
I'd like to see some specific discussion on these issues, as it has and, probably will, effect the entire industry in the coming years.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.H.
-
Permalink Reply by Richard Nongard - HypnosisGurus.com on
-
I think your mistake here Lee, is in assuming these laws extend to those doing erotic hypnosis in the bedroom they do not. This is not about hypnotherapist see a cleint in the front office then moving into the bedroom with clients. For example, "I helped you loose weight in my office, now lets go to the bedroom and let me really show you some fun!" Yes, I concur, if that happens, it is a clear violation, that would easily be presecuted by any state.
I also think if a person were to lead workshops for couples in erotic hypnois, doing training and sessions with couples or groups, then jump into bed with them (ie. swingers), they would easily fall under the same catagory and be subject to both criminal and civil litigation.
However it is a mistake to believe this is the issue with so-called erotic hypnosis...
Hypnosis with sexual themes like Bob's wesbite are NOT therapeutic and no therapeutic relationship is entered into by Bob or Nikki. In websites like Aaron's, he may actually hypnotize them, but they are paid models, not clients. Essentially they are the actors in a porn film. I don't think Aaron has an office in the front to do professional hypnotherapy and a porn studio in the back, he just has a porn studio- that is what he does.
And certainly a couple (laymen for lack of a better term) who learns hypnotic technique to enhance there own sex life (much like buying sex toys, games, lotions, etc. for use as a couple) and role-play or act out sexual fantasies in a non-professional capacity with someone who is already established as a lover, would fall into this catagory.
Yes Lee, it would be wrong for anyone to have sex with a client - or anyone who has been a client. Or to draw cleints into any type of sexual acitivity with the therapist/teacher. But that is now the context of "erotic hypnosis" It usually falls into couples learning techniques to enhance their own lives, or in the case of Aarons and Bobs webpages, people fulfiling erotic fanties though self-stimulation in the privacy of their own home.
I am not endorsing Bob or Aaron, I am just simply stating that these folks are not violating any patient-doctor relationship. They produce porn in audio (bobs website) or video (aarons website) and as such, their is nothing to fear because they are not healers. They are as Aaron says, "orgasm givers"....
For hypnotherapists to focus on them, since they are not in the arena of professional hypnotherapy, has a pradoxical effect. That being siad, they are hypnotists. They do know hypnosis, even as applied non-therapeutically. I listened to the sample session of Nikki and Bob. Very well done! I learned a lot about integration and use of sound by listening to the sample they have published. And while they are not doing therapy, I think listening to them gave me ideas that can enhance the therapeutic work i do in non-sexual hypnosis settings... After all, I wish in my stop smoking CD, the music was that good. Nikki is an expert at timing her suggestions. A skill any hypnotherapist can learn from....
To say becasue they are pornographers, one can't learn from them, would be like saying because Playboy is porn, a photgrapher shouldn't learn professional lighting techniques from looking at playboy photos.... (which is probaly one of the best ways to learn sublte lighting techniques)
Sign in
Chat
Loading Chat...
Featured Advertising
Latest Activity
1 minute ago 
24 minutes ago 
24 minutes ago 
26 minutes ago 
30 minutes ago 
34 minutes ago
34 minutes ago © 2009 Created by Scott Sandland, C.Ht. Scott is not responsible for the information or opinions shared on HypnoThoughts or the actions of its members.
